Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio

    I would push you toward the Russian foam design.. more or less the same as the comerical ones, witch realy had a lot of thought put into them

    After a few seasons, my thoughts
    You want 2 combs minimum for thermal control, 3 is better. The more square the brood chamber the better
    You need an easy way to provide enuff feed for 2 weeks, internally! I like liquid as the bees are locked in the 1st 3 days dark and cool.
    Drawn comb isn't needed, and is often in the way when your dumping in bees. The cup of bees has time on thier hands waiting for the virgin to harden and mate out, they will draw plenty of comb
    I build 5 two 1/2 comb comfort types last year cost me maybe $4 eachPicture1.jpgPicture2.jpg
    but the thin walls and elongated shape held me back early season.. and feeders always seem to be a battle on homemades, cups, bags, soda bottles what ever

    Next up I did twelve 1/2 length 8 frame super shallows (5.25") as there was a large amount of 1x6 in the home depot 70% off pile at the time. but making 100 scratch built frames... that got un fun quickly
    but you can stack 2 on a 8 frame hive to fill them up and they split fast
    mini frame.jpg mini hive stack.jpg
    they had a center division board so they could split into two 3 frame units with internal feeders, stack up to over winter, had enough space in an empty box placed on top to hold three 1 quart deli containers of feed when I came time to combine and fatten for wint

    then I built six 2f nucs out of a $10 sheet of OSB... but in other then prime weather the shape caused issues, as did the need of an external feeder. I ended up using them to grow nucs using mated queens. But if some one was not using portabul cells (ie swarm cells on plastic foundation) they may be more useful

    And of coarse I have some standed 2 and 3 frame queen castles, they work fine and are a little more weather robust then the 2f stand alones

    Next year my wood 1/2 framers will be the 1st in to use as right now there are 4 units stacked 3 high going into winter. So I have a high likly hood of at least one making it and providing the resources to restart the rest.
    followed by the 10 foam minis, likly building some comfort hives and then move on to using queen castles, and last the 2f nucs

    I found the commercial foam ones easy to work, easier to load etc. a few more bells and whistles that makes my time in the field quicker and easier . sure they cost me more a unit.. but if I were to put a price tag on my labor to build, that gap would close. As would every year of time saving..

    for some one who just wants a few the $11 price tag isn't a huge hurdle, and it stops the "good idea fairy" from poping into peoples heads as often happens when people deside to "just build it" them self.. When learning a new skill, its often best to use the conventional ways and equipment and then after success branch out in the unknown.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    I would push you toward the Russian foam design...... The more square the brood chamber the better .....
    Thanks for the ideas!

    And btw, I have plans to finally start experimenting with the square compact verticals (need to consolidate the priorities; toss few side-projects).
    Outside of an ellipse and sphere variants, the square and the cube - are the most energy efficient geometrical shapes possible.
    The squares and the cubes are the way if using standard building materials.

    I really, really like this format:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9rZIPvCTEU

    Added another vid about the frame making for this format:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oE06FTUUJM&t=529s

    No need for special frames.
    Those are your standard frames:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=%D1%...Rm-bAk9zUOuCM:

    Compatible to my current frame - BUT, 1/3 size of my current frame.
    The compatibility proportions are obvious if you look at this jumbo frame:
    20190623_203056.jpg

    And the beauty - the standard box of a compact vertical is very, very plastic - it can be used as a mating nuc as it is (it is small enough).
    Standard small ergonomic box on a small standard frame - many, many custom uses (mating box usage included).

    So, I dislike specialty usage equipment - that immediately adds the overhead - the specially mating nucs included, be it Russian foam..
    I don't want them.

    I do like standard multi-use equipment of proper, ergonomic dimensions (which, as history of the bee hives demonstrates, is a cavity of about square shape and the cross-dimensions at ~300mmx300mm).
    Ergonomic - bee-wise primarily (human ergonomy comes along just as a coincidence - a great bonus at that).
    Compact vertical equipment variants seem to be a possible answer (and have been exploding in Russia/Ukraine, just as we speak).

    This is one of the huge negatives of the current Langs (people and the manufacturers can argue all they want, hehe) - very poor dimensions of the original architecture.
    The evidence - the so called "mating castles" made from the Lang boxes - yet another custom hack created by the awkward and non-ergonomic original dimensions.
    Inventors of the system never gave it a thought - the modern version of the multi-use never crossed their mind.
    The Lang is ALL about honey-making. More honey - a single-purpose architecture.
    The same problem with the Dadants and other large-frame based architectures.
    These all require yet another line of equipment of for the queen raising - the evidence of single-purpose minded architectures.

    The better dimensions of the multi-use compact architecture allow you to just grab the box, (any box!!! - not customization whatsoever), grab few frames from a pile (any frames!!!) and just use it.
    So that the mating box story - the standard beehive box and standard frames - grab it, use it, set it and forget it (be it honey production, bee production, queen production, XYZ production).
    Last edited by GregV; 11-12-2019 at 10:47 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
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    3,039

    Default Re: Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio

    That diversity of use comes at a price. As in $ of cost for multiple boxes with lots of small frames. Perhaps useful in some contexts, but definitely not going to be a minimal cost solution.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  5. #24
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    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio

    Removed.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    England, UK
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    Default Re: Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio

    I just love those micro mating-nucs as an example of what can be done (but perhaps not necessarily what ought to be done).

    I've just watched a couple of episodes of the 'Sam Comfort Show' - not my favourite beekeeper in view of the showmanship involved, but I have to acknowledge the guy's beekeeping abilities ...
    In one video he makes the comment that mated queens ideally need 2 or 3 weeks to develop before they're suitable for transfer elsewhere - which I think is a very wise precaution to take(*) - and that small nuc boxes simply do not have enough capacity to hold a growing colony throughout that time. So it would seem that a larger mating-nuc box is the answer (perhaps temporarily dummied-down to a size appropriate to the small number of bees initially installed ?).

    I also liked his technique of 'recycling' frames of sealed brood from mating nucs (which becomes necessary to keep those bee numbers down) back to a queenless starter-finisher - thus solving two problems with one action. Nice.

    (*) There appears to be a widely-held assumption (inasmuch as people think about this at all) that a newly-emerged virgin queen is fully developed, and only requires to be mated before being 'put into harness'. We see evidence of this with providing virgins that emerge into roller cages with honey or fondant to eat, and only fondant being supplied to queens in mailing cages. But queens emerging within colonies will be fed by worker bees.
    Indeed, I'm fast developing a suspicion that queens need to be fed Royal Jelly right throughout their lives, and not just while larvae - because the production of eggs is a highly protein-dependent activity, and Royal Jelly is (or ought to be) therefore the continuous diet of queens. I can't prove it - but it makes sense.

    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio

    mated queens ideally need 2 or 3 weeks to develop before they're suitable for transfer elsewhere
    I have hurd this said a lot, by people who should know.....
    But I haven't been able to find a study to support this view, any one have one?

    I wonder if it relay matters to us little guys who make queens for our own use or local pick up
    in most case the queen goes right out of the mating nuc and in to another hive or full sized nuc, she is not banked or shiped

  8. #27
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    Aug 2014
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    England, UK
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    Default Re: Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio

    Here are a few quotes from 'Wedmore' - he's not an author I've ever studied, but at first sight the following quotes from his book do appear germane to this thread:

    For the mating of queens, frames as small as a standard section (4" x 4") have been employed and as few as a dozen bees, but for satisfactory use for emergence, mating, and testing for fertilization, it is generally necessary to use a much larger number of bees, except where the night temperature is uniformly high. The supply of bees must be kept up, but the greatest success in quick fertilization is obtained with a moderate number, not more than, say, five hundred.
    Nucleoli ['mini-mating nucs' - LJ] can only be used for emergence, fertilization and immediate sale of untested queens (see 258).
    The young queen should be introduced as a virgin (92 and 238) into a colony for fertilization as soon as possible after emergence.
    That's something that I discovered the hard way, earlier this year ...

    Tested and Untested Queens
    Classification and Definition

    268. A Virgin Queen is one unmated, but should be sold as soon as possible after emergence (see 79).

    A Selected Virgin Queen is one selected by appearance (see 38) and heredity and obviously cannot have been tested in any way.

    An Untested Queen is a mated queen that has begun to lay (see 259).

    A Selected Untested Queen is one that has been selected by appearance (see 38) and heredity.

    A Tested Queen is one that has been laying for more than 3 weeks(*) in a satisfactory manner and whose progeny show correct mating.

    A Selected Tested Queen is one selected by appearance (see 38), heredity and performance.

    A Breeding Queen is one whose progeny have shown excellent results and characteristics for at least a full year, and selected for the raising of new queens on the evidence so obtained and according to its heredity and appearance.

    Notes
    269. The above definitions have no authority behind them, but will be recognized by any good breeder. A laying queen in full lay should not be sent by post without her laying being first temporarily reduced by transfer to a nucleus.
    An untested queen from a reliable source is generally as good an investment as a tested queen, as it is likely to suffer less in transit which may more than offset the risk of a bad mating.

    Wedmore, Manual of Beekeeping, 1932
    (*) so - if indeed 3 weeks was considered the minimum length of time for a new queen to remain 'on probation' until she proved herself as a 'tested queen' - could this have then developed into a wider recommendation regarding queen development, and not solely as proof of satisfactory mating ?

    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Video - long Ukrainan hives - English audio

    Nucleoli ['mini-mating nucs' - LJ] can only be used for emergence, fertilization and immediate sale of untested queens
    I agreed with the "untested" bit, I pop my mini mated queens in to a 2f or the 1/2 shallows, when I can to limit the resource risk.
    The amount of drone laying queens people end up in packages here speaks to the untested bit. A 3 week catch cycle with capped brood like Sam uses would catch that much more then pulling from a mini as soon as there are eggs.

    so - if indeed 3 weeks was considered the minimum length of time for a new queen to remain 'on probation' until she proved herself as a 'tested queen' - could this have then developed into a wider recommendation regarding queen development, and not solely as proof of satisfactory mating
    that would be a 5 week catch cycle !!
    but your not wrong.. arguably - (Brother Adam paraphrase) she is not fully tested and ready to go into a production hive till she has brought a nuc threw winter.
    Like wize there are fokes who buy queens ever year or 2 as they feel the out crossed mongrels are far less productive..

    my thought is were is the economic line for the little guy...
    If shiping a virgin and a cup of bees to a mating station and back has worked so well for so long for big operations, what is the downfall of doing it in a home yard on the small scale?

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