Oxalic Dribble Method
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  1. #1

    Default Oxalic Dribble Method

    The company i work for is about to embark on the use of the dribble method on our colonies.

    It is early novemeber. In about 4 weeks they plan on drenching colony seams with the prescribed 50mls oF a sugary soln of OA.

    On my hives i use OAV. I personally would not use the dribble and i would not introduce liquid into a hive when it would be near freezing outside.

    Can anyone please share some insight on dribble why or why not this is crazy to do?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    You may have missed this ongoing thread on dribble vs vaporization----- have a look.

    https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ibble-freqency
    Frank

  4. #3

    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    Thanks i read that earlier...

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    I generally treat with Apiguard in August and then dribble with Oxalic Acid between Christmas and New Year when there should be minimum brood. I treat about 20 colonies each winter, never had queen loss or any issues I have witnessed using it. I don't see dead bees being chucked out of the hive either. I do it just once per year. It's a belt and braces approach to varroa control - usually there's not too many varroa that fall but occasionally a colony will drop a few hundred, indicating that the Apigard didn't work too well or the bees robbed out a colony with mites after treatment. For me, treatment temperature is typically between 2 and 10 degrees centigrade at that time of year.
    The job is done very quickly. I have a vaporiser but rarely use it. AND it needs good breathing protection for the user.
    May your bees read the same books as you do
    http://www.norfolkbee.co.uk/home

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    Works a treat ... but use 5ml per seam, not 50ml.
    Faster than vaporisation - yes, I've timed it - but the colony really must be broodless for maximum efficacy.
    It also damages open brood.
    Only trickle treat once per season.
    The Apiarist - beekeeping in Fife, Scotland

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    Now lets see, I have 20 colonies at least 3 mediums high and I can treat all of them with oxalic acid vapor in less than 20 minutes, with your timing on dribble how long do you think you will take.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    Johno, How long does it take the sublimation to take place per hive? It usually takes a minute or two for the heater to work. And what protection do you wear?
    May your bees read the same books as you do
    http://www.norfolkbee.co.uk/home

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    The actual sublimation takes around 30 seconds and I push more than 2 grams per treatment, the trick here is to keep the bowl clean and I do that with a small stainless brush that I wipe out the inside of the bowl as I move to the next loaded cap on the next hive. When I treat my observation hive or my AZ hives which are in an enclosed space I use a 2M paper mask. In my yards I just start down wind and work my way up wind with no protection not even a veil, now I do not suggest that you should do the same but I am quite comfortable working this way as the vaporizer is going through a 1/4" hole into a hive pretty closed up and while that vaporizer is sublimating I am at the next hive upwind preparing it for treatment and if at any time there is a vapor cloud from something I just walk away but generally there is not much leakage. You can see in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ets5cCtFsb4&t=844s

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    12 hives in 15:30...but lets not forget the 5 min warm up and the 10 min post treatment wait to unseal the hive, so more like 30:30 to treat the yard,

    I am about 1 min a hive car door to door with dribble on a small yard using a spray bottle, even with a syringe its not that hard to keep a good pace... watch this guy treat 2 hives in 1:30 while taking his time and talking to the camera. https://youtu.be/xQc6ZdQsYj4?t=30

    Granted he is doing singles, and if you want to argue OAV saves you from lifting full deeps of stores I would certainly buy that (and thats one of the main reasons I build a band heater vap) but the time difrance is more or less an illusion, and matters very little on a hobbyist scale any way. They both work well and are used extensively by beekeepers of every level
    Last edited by msl; 11-03-2019 at 12:26 PM.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    Now now MSL you need to watch the video before making those comments, The 15 minutes includes the 2 minutes heat up time and as I am down to minimum entrance width in most of those hive they are treated and then I move on. Your guy is treating single boxes in my video I am treating as many as 4 mediums on a hive and also working with the camera and trying to narate at the same time which kind of slows down the works. Now you also forget to mention the time taken to prepare your solution should that not be included into your overall time besides I treat this way with OAV at least 12 times per colony.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    looking at it again, I guess you plug it in just off camera?

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    If I remeber I plug the vaporizer into the cord and then start the timer, it normally takes 2 minutes to reach operating temperature. The problem about making a video all on your own is that I had to use a chest mounted Gopro camera and you have no idea what it looks like until you download the video.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    I did a single and double dribble on 150 hives in 2017 as per Randy Oliver and still had 60% winter losses.

    I don't think johno should turn a thread on dribble into a plug for his vaporizor.
    All of my opinions and suggestions are based on my five decades of actual beekeeping,
    not so much on book learning, watching YouTube videos nor reading internet sites.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    Hey Odfrank I am not really plugging my vaporizer as such, I an basically trying to counter incorrect information regarding the speed and ease of the different OA systems as most information is still geared to the pan type of vaporization which was slow but is no longer relevant to say the Provap vaporizer.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    Johno -while I may disagree with your positions, I have never seen any reason to challenge your motives. Your a stand up guy and your posts have helped many beekeepers (including me) build a great tool

    I did a single and double dribble on 150 hives in 2017 as per Randy Oliver and still had 60% winter losses.
    did you also do the formic and thymol treatments he uses earlier in the season ?

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    If you are doing a boatload of hives, the dribble method is much quicker. In the time it takes to vaporize 1 hive with a Provap, including the warm up period between treatments, you can probably do two with the dribble method. On top of that, you can still treat with the dribble method in temperatures that are too low to use the Provap. The dribble method is certainly cheaper in the short run. However, the total time allotted can be misleading. Yes, there is setup time with a Provap. You need to get the power cords set up and time to warm up the machine. You also have to spend time sealing off the entrance and unsealing when you are done. There is also setup time with the dribble method, including mixing the syrup and adding the OA to the mix. There are also transportation issues if you have a lot of hives and need to move around large quantities of liquid. You also need safety equipment with the dribble method such as eye protection and gloves. If you have out yards without electricity, the dribble method is MUCH easier than hauling a generator.

    If I were a large operator with employees and payroll costs were also an issue, I would use the dribble method for my mid-winter treatments. With the 20 hives I currently have, the Provap is perfect for me.

  18. #17

    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    The actual sublimation takes around 30 seconds and I push more than 2 grams per treatment, the trick here is to keep the bowl clean and I do that with a small stainless brush that I wipe out the inside of the bowl as I move to the next loaded cap on the next hive. When I treat my observation hive or my AZ hives which are in an enclosed space I use a 2M paper mask. In my yards I just start down wind and work my way up wind with no protection not even a veil, now I do not suggest that you should do the same but I am quite comfortable working this way as the vaporizer is going through a 1/4" hole into a hive pretty closed up and while that vaporizer is sublimating I am at the next hive upwind preparing it for treatment and if at any time there is a vapor cloud from something I just walk away but generally there is not much leakage. You can see in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ets5cCtFsb4&t=844s
    Thanks for the responses. I have read through them. In my apiary, I use OAV, right about now, every five days until my drop approaches zero. As soon as i am done i will post the data and that the data from the last three years. In 6 winters , doing it this way i have never lost a hive overwinter. I use a 12v motorcycke battery, 2g oa per hive, the bedillion farms vaporizer i bought five years ago and a 3M 2097 organic fume filter (the paper mask is not appropriate PPE for doing this). It takes 2.5mins to cook off the 2g, and i leave the hive sealed for an additional 10mins. I can treat four hives in about 15mins..the prep of sealing hives, preparing ipm board they way i do it, adds more time, and i repeat this every 5 days until i am done—i add apivar in mid to late July. My post is about the dribble method. Since oav only kills phoretic mites, i don't understand how only one treatment of a syrup soln of oa can have a residual effect to kill VD. I only ask because the company I work for part time wants to dribble this sh*t in the brood chamber which means cracking seals to get to the bottom box.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    I only ask because the company I work for part time wants to dribble this sh*t in the brood chamber which means cracking seals to get to the bottom box.
    welp... why ask if you have your mind made up?
    6 years, no losses, maybe you should be full time? can't imagine what a commercial operation could teach you...

    Since oav only kills phoretic mites, i don't understand how only one treatment of a syrup soln of oa can have a residual effect to kill VD.
    if cracking the seal is a perceived issue to the hive it must be cold...brood is not likely, so the mites die oav or dribble.. it just matters what method is more cost effective to the company.
    side bar OAV is a flash.. kills mites 2-3 days dribble stays in the hive and kills for 2 weeks+- seems to be different modes of action

    With out 1st hand experience with a treatment method, A wise man would collect a paycheck and watch and see the results at a large scale at no risk to them.
    Last edited by msl; 11-06-2019 at 12:51 AM.

  20. #19
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Oxalic Dribble Method

    With out 1st hand experience with a treatment method, A wise man would collect a paycheck and watch and see the results at a large scale at no risk to them.

    I read the whole post with this same thought.
    Smile say yes sir, and see what happens. At most suggest they do 1/2 the first year and then compare. Seems to me you are in a "position" to learn how this will compare.
    All this talk here will not compare to doing the dribble on many hives and see the results.

    Do report back in the spring with Empirical Data.
    GG

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