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Thread: Global Warming

  1. #161
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    No, it ain't "global warming", but it is "climate change". And it doesn't necessarily happen over the long haul. It can happen from one year to the next without there being a quantum continuing in one way or the other.

    As is the case between 2018, where here, SW WA, we had a 5 month dearth beginning mid May, (kinda possibly fitting the idea of "global warming") and shutting down/drying up/eliminating the normal blackberry (nearly constant major flow for this area) flow. And then, come 2019, the more typical for this area occasional rainfall late spring/early summer. And blackberry flow was back.

    Get a clue, please. The terms were not changed from "global warming" to "climate change" for no reason at all. It was changed because global warming just was not happening.

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  3. #162
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    " It was changed because global warming just was not happening." Well it's one heck of a long heating up cycle - at least 76 years. Actually, I like it warmer here - now . Every action has pros and cons but I am not sure about the effect of 7.7 billion people farting.

  4. #163
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    “ Every action has pros and cons but I am not sure about the effect of 7.7 billion people farting.” Yikes, that was funny!
    Proverbs 16:24

  5. #164
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    “ Every action has pros and cons but I am not sure about the effect of 7.7 billion people farting.” Yikes, that was funny!
    I know when I am under my Blankies, it has a slight warming effect. Perhaps this help explain, the "global warming" 7.7 billion warm puffs of air daily. Minus of course the boys and girls who just "refuse to Fart" hmmm they must just adsorb it back into the blood or something..... Or sneak it out later when alone.

  6. #165
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    When I was growing up, my sisters informed me in no uncertain terms, girls don't fart, they "poot".

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  7. #166
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    interesting read i just experianced.

    History is littered with experts who predicted an imminent disaster of biblical proportions... and got it wrong.

    The intellectual godfather of today's doom-and-gloomers is Thomas Malthus.

    In his 1798 An Essay on the Principle of Population, Malthus argued that human populations grow exponentially and food production grows arithmetically.

    His gloomy conclusion?

    Men should refrain "from pursuing the dictate of nature in an early attachment to one woman" and marry later in life and have small families. Otherwise, the world will run out of food and famine will ensue.

    Of course, Malthus' predictions never came to pass. But he was hardly alone.

    Madsen Pirie, president of London's Adam Smith Institute, recently compiled a list of failed doomsday predictions from the last 50 years. The list is impressive.
    • 1966: Oil will run out in 10 years
    • 1967: Famines by 1975
    • 1968: Worldwide overpopulation
    • 1970: World's natural resources run out
    • 1970: Ice age by 2000
    • 1970: Water rationing in U.S. by 1974, food rationing by 1980
    • 1971: New ice age by 2020 or 2030
    • 1974: Satellites show new ice age is near
    • 1976: Scientific consensus that Earth is cooling
    • 1978: 30-year cooling trend continues
    • 1980: Acid rain kills life in lakes
    • 1980: Peak oil in 2000
    • 1988: Regional droughts by 1990s
    • 1988: Maldives underwater by 2018
    • 1989: Nations will be wiped out if nothing done by 2000
    • 2000: Children won't know what snow is
    • 2002: Peak oil in 2010
    • 2002: Famine in 10 years unless we stop eating fish, meat and dairy products
    • 2004: Britain will be Siberia by 2020
    • 2008: The Arctic will be ice-free by 2018
    • 2008: Al Gore predicts ice-free Arctic by 2013
    • 2009: Prince Charles says we have 96 months to save the world
    • 2009: Gordon Brown says we have 50 days to "save the planet from catastrophe"
    • 2013: Arctic ice-free by 2015
    • 2014: Only 500 days before "climate chaos"
    What was the one thing each prediction had in common? It didn't come true.

    Many times the perceived issue prompts new discoveries or substitutes.

    Charles Maurice and Charles W. Smithson at Texas A&M University studied the history of natural resources over 10,000 years.

    Temporary scarcities in natural resources, it turns out, are the norm. And a temporary shortage in one resource always led to a better substitute.

    A shortage of tin forced the Greeks' transition from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age 3,000 years ago.

    Timber shortages accelerated the rise of coal in 16th-century Britain. The shortage of whale oil in 1850 led directly to the first oil well in 1859.

    It now appears that electric vehicles will gradually supplant cars.

    The lesson?

    Human ingenuity has always overcome crises that once seemed inevitable. So don't buy into any doomsday scenario that predicts the imminent demise of our species.

    As the cartoonist Charles Schulz advised, "Don't worry about the world ending today. It's already tomorrow in Australia."

    GG

  8. #167
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Gg;

    Your list of predictions that did not come true is not at all conclusive. For one thing many of them may only be off in the time frame and will prove true. It would be easy to come up with a list of predictions that have proven to be correct. This argument form though does show an intent to sway opinions.

    Your next device about human ingenuity having always overcome diversity is also a very weak predictor of future successes. Where finite resources are a large issue and population has doubled so many times, future problem solving is made much more difficult. Being able to switch to other means when one is exhausted will become more difficult each time, will it not? I suggest that capability is another prediction that will fail to save the day.

    I am not a believer in imminent demise either; in my remaining time I probably wont be too inconvenienced, but if humanity is facing good odds of an eventual belt tightening, wouldnt it be a good thing to start looking at ways of weaning ourselves off flagrant trashing of remaining resources? The first move in finding a solution is to establish that there is indeed a problem. If there is one around the corner its a good time to start putting the brakes on.
    Frank

  9. #168
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Last time I checked predictions of famine and overpopulation have not been universally false.

    Why have the predictions been false/ Often because people did something about it.

    So I will take your post as a call to action.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  10. #169
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Where finite resources are a large issue and population has doubled so many times, future problem solving is made much more difficult.

    right but there are more minds working on the "bigger" problems, with better tools, computers etc. At 1 point 10- 20 stone age men were working on the "wheel" they came up with it and less horse power was needed to move loads. today 100s if not thousands work at Goodyear on tires improving the tread design tire life etc. In our lifetime we should see a shift to Electric cars, 1000s work on that where only a few did 20 years ago.

    So I will take your post as a call to action.
    I do hope many/most of us are not wasting resources, as I have prior stated, I am not waste-full and do not condone waste and wanton pollution. I think every few years/months one needs to have a look at their impact on earth and do what you can to minimize it. I am about done with fast food myself because the Styrofoam box the burger comes in has a useful life of 20 min and a 1/2 life of 500 years. Some things we can wean out of our lives, some things like refrigeration seems more likely to stay. The McMansions seem to have run their course around here. For the life of me I do not see where someone would want to heat, cool, furnish and pay taxes on that big of a house, but apparently some do. Maybe making how many people you help the status symbol instead of how many toys you have would be a good step in the right direction. change comes slow, some of us are better able to tolerate the wait...

  11. #170
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    I only hope that more people will see our present situation as a call to action. Hopefully we can be part of a solution not merely hand wringing victims.

    The example of how new technology has created energy savings sounds like it should lend us complacency but if you dig into it...., Not!

    The sad truth is explained by the Jevons Paradox

    In economics, the Jevons paradox occurs when technological progress or government policy increases the efficiency with which a resource is used, but the rate of consumption of that resource rises due to increasing demand. The Jevons paradox is perhaps the most widely known paradox in environmental economics.
    Frank

  12. #171
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  13. #172
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    A fuller explanation might describe Baby Boomers. The spoiled brats born and raised in the new age indulgence of the post second world war bust out. A real demographic bulge.
    Last edited by crofter; 11-06-2019 at 04:50 PM.
    Frank

  14. #173
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    A fuller explanation might describe Baby Boomers. The spoiled brats born and raised in the new age indulgence of the post second world war bust out. A real demographic bulge.
    The Boomer thing is pretty much applicable to the New World.

    The Old World took the same decades and beyond to rebuild from the WWII ravage.
    If you were alive, just having some bread and butter was the ultimate joy.
    And the honey on top was the real deal!

    I still enjoy the BBH exactly the same way just as before.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  15. #174
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    Default

    A call to action: I am fairly doubtful governments, especially the US government, can act. Let alone for someone else's best interest. Even if it is our own grandchildren. How much debt is getting kicked down the road, even for things not deemed so important?
    So I agree that a green new deal may not be the best deal. However, if tightening the belt seems like a smart choice, wouldnt part of that be eliminating government subsidies of the status quo, especially the ones that proffit a few people at the long term cost to many? Even if we are not all sure what that cost is, shouldn't governments be concerned with helping the many (also poor) and not cocerned with helping the few (also rich)? Why do oil companies get any subsidies at all? Why does Amazon get a tax handout to create a few new jobs? Look at how much investment tax payers are making per job. Not so lucrative for the many, but a great way to eliminate risk on Amazon's part.
    To be sure, a call to action is not only for governments but for us ordinary citizens. It is just that much more of an uphill battle when we first have to counteract oil (etc) subsidies before we actually make a positive difference.
    And really a terrible argument above stating roughly that the increased carbon is actually good for the planet: the planet did just fine for a while without our input. Why is it only doctors who are supposed to live by "first do no harm"?
    On a grander scale of our wastefulness without any consideration for the future because we perceive a right to (cheep!) freedom: who is going to clean up the nukes? Does anyone really have a right to make nukes or nuke power? Really? How did the west notice Chernobyl? Wasn't it because the Swedes noticed higher radiation in.... Sweden? And what would have happened to the health of many people (not only in Japan!), of fukushima had also melted?
    Sure, these are bigger problems that are harder for an individual to fix. But our governments condone nukes.
    Imho governments' responsibility is to take care of the weak who cannot care for themselves and stay away from subsidizing markets so the market can regulate itself. Put those 2 together and you will have the markets influenced by consumers with the oversight of governments to make sure the consumers have accurate information on which to base their judgement. And to hold the liars accountable for lying. And there we have a problem: politicians are going to keep someone from lying?! Oh dear. As gg said: we may all have to move to Australia because the world can't end there tomorrow, even if it will end here tomorrow!



    (I know, I know!)
    🙂

  16. #175
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    I doubt the Aussies would let us in to their country, because someone would just have to bring their bees with them with their attending mites.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  17. #176

  18. #177
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Granted, the current Earth is nothing like the Earth of about 1 Billion years ago - lots of tectonic/super-volcanic activity (back then!!) - the man-made factor is the leading factor it appears.

    If the Earth outputs (due to natural activity) were similar to that of pre-Paleozoic era (with the appropriate atmosphere) - we'd be pretty much dead.
    Lots of the Siberia, for example, is nothing but a frozen lava sea.
    Imagine living in those conditions.
    Only for microbes, if that.

    Since no super-volcanos are active at the moment (very lucky for us) - unsure who/what else is outputting so much pollution but the two-legged mammals.

    To be sure, when the Wyoming super-volcano will blow (hopefully, few hundreds years away still) - none of our discussions will matter - everything be burned and polluted beyond life.
    https://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6108169...lcano-eruption

    ...........the USGS points out. "Odds are very high that Yellowstone will be eruption-free for the coming centuries."
    Whew.
    But really?
    Last edited by GregV; 11-19-2019 at 10:30 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  19. #178
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Hi Juhani, So here is a Quote from the site:
    Is the Sun causing global warming?
    No. The Sun can influence Earth’s climate, but it isn’t responsible for the warming trend we’ve seen over the past few decades.

    So how do we know that? surface temps on Mars are going up as well. connect the fact that the "hardware is changing" how we measure and the accuracy etc.
    this statement causes me to say bunk to the whole site. Sorry if I am not climbing on board.
    here is my "Facts" my property in the U.P of Mich used to be in the 40s for deer season, with some hunting time (30s-40s)even in december.
    Last week it was below Zero, as in -3 on nov 16 in the 20 years I have been up there it has never been this cold. Also 3 times in the last 5 years I was moved out due to snow depth, again recent, last 5 years development. When global warming seemed to be cooling the "adjustment" to climate change was made.
    Looking at the graph in a band for 1000s of years and way out of the band very recent, we either are all dead in 10 years or this data has been "massaged"
    Again we all need to swing one way or the other, my choice is the "data does not compute" IMO climate change is the only Constant we can count on, with 2 or more Ice ages with out SUVs to blame it on we all know the climate can and does change with out humans "causing it". So we are just going in circles, here. Thanks for having an opinion, I respect all opinions. Ok excuse me while I start my Suburban to melt the windshield off and hit the road.
    Have a nice day
    GG

  20. #179
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Granted, the current Earth is nothing like the Earth of about 1 Billion years ago - lots of tectonic/super-volcanic activity - the man-made factor is the leading factor it appears.

    If the Earth outputs (due to natural activity) were similar to that of pre-Paleozoic era (with the appropriate atmosphere) - we'd be pretty much dead.
    Lots of the Siberia, for example, is nothing but a frozen lava sea.
    Imagine living in those conditions.
    Only for microbes, if that.

    Since no super-volcanos are active at the moment (very lucky for us) - unsure who/what else is outputting so much pollution but the two-legged mammals.

    To be sure, when the Wyoming super-volcano will blow (hopefully, few hundreds years away still) - none of our discussions will matter - everything be burned and polluted beyond life.
    https://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6108169...lcano-eruption


    Whew.
    But really?
    concur the volcano activity will be either be
    the deal breaker or it will not happen for a 100 or 1000 years. Likely the cause of either the ICe age melting or being created.
    GG

  21. #180
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Now this one is pretty cool:
    Secretive energy startup backed by Bill Gates achieves solar breakthrough
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/busin...tes/index.html
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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