Global Warming
Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 395

Thread: Global Warming

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Park County, Montana, USA
    Posts
    505

    Default Global Warming

    My mentor, a 40 year bee keeper from the northern reaches of the USA, told me if you took a farmer and hit him really hard over the head with a fence post you'd have a bee keeper. It used to be easy before varroa came along.
    Well, it seems that adage holds true. So many here deny global warming, it's led me to believe there are lots of fence posts flying and hitting slow people in the head.
    The science is clear. Global warming is here, it is affecting every life on the planet and if you refuse to accept this fact you've been hit by too many fence posts. For those wondering, one fence post is too many.
    Wake Up!

    Lee
    5 Production colonies, 1 side by side 5 frame nuc for support- 7 working queens is all I want.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Spokane County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    360

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Whether I agree with you or not, I am not sure what your goal is in posting.

    If you hoping to convince someone who is not on your side, you probably won't. If you hoping to offend someone who is not on your side, you probably will.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,935

    Default Re: Global Warming

    I think the biggest problem with the " global warming" debate is not whether one can prove that the planet is getting warmer (or colder as was proven a short 40 years ago), but that it is man made and not part of an on going and never ending cycle of natural temperature fluctuatuons. Having a similar set of people who have been hit by fence posts tell us that by taking money out of our collective wallets they will fix the problem is beyond ridiculous.

    Personally, I am for clean energy. But I am also for a robust economy. Cutting off this nation's supply of inexpesive energy while alternative sources are still being developed is a sure fire way to assure that China, who is the the worlds largest polluter, takes over.

    Keep the discussion civil, and know that no matter how vehemently you argue your point, for or against, you are unlikely to change anyone's mind.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,802

    Default Re: Global Warming

    As far as I know the cheapeake bay used to be a glacier, well I looked outside this morning and Grins is right as the glacier is gone. Now how did that happen if there was no global warming.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    6,658

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Any one have a recent fishing report from Lake Agassiz?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    2,717

    Default Re: Global Warming

    We do not have to agree on the cause of Global warming to find some common ground. Remember the 70's gas lines. Do we want to be an energy vulnerable economy? Is energy source diversity a sound goal? Do you want the cost of a fill up to depend upon the latest middle east crazie?

    China is far more invested in "green energy" than the US. Do you think they are on this path because of economics or ecology?

    The NE is the most heavily dependent on #2 home heating oil region in the country. What we suck down directly impacts your diesel price. Why would you resist efforts to convert to heat pumps for part of that load? Really not a communist plot. Or a scientist plot. Or a left wing liberal plot. (Pist! I really just want you to think it is not.)
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,448

    Default Re: Global Warming

    We don't have to do anything; the problem will take care of itself! We do however, have to live with the consequences!

    Exponential growth chasing depleting finite resources does not project a happy ending. The default position for humans is to live for the present. Many feel this is hard wired into us; the nature of the beast!

    If that is the case we have an extremely complex problem to deal with.
    Frank

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    482

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    I think the biggest problem with the " global warming" debate is not whether one can prove that the planet is getting warmer (or colder as was proven a short 40 years ago), but that it is man made and not part of an on going and never ending cycle of natural temperature fluctuatuons. Having a similar set of people who have been hit by fence posts tell us that by taking money out of our collective wallets they will fix the problem is beyond ridiculous.

    Personally, I am for clean energy. But I am also for a robust economy. Cutting off this nation's supply of inexpesive energy while alternative sources are still being developed is a sure fire way to assure that China, who is the the worlds largest polluter, takes over.

    Keep the discussion civil, and know that no matter how vehemently you argue your point, for or against, you are unlikely to change anyone's mind.
    You make too much sense
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper 2nd yr 14 hives
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BackyardBeesNC

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Deep Brook, NS, Canada
    Posts
    605

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Personally, I am for clean energy. But I am also for a robust economy. Cutting off this nation's supply of inexpesive energy while alternative sources are still being developed is a sure fire way to assure that China, who is the the worlds largest polluter, takes over.
    I set foot in this debate with trepidation.
    What's happening now is that the cost of zero marginal cost energy has fallen to the point where it is displacing carbon fueled plants. India has just cancelled 14 new coal plants in favor of wind/solar, and China, the World's largest manufacturer of electric buses and cars, is also building solar and wind faster than any other country. We in North America have a way to go.
    The big question is, can we become carbon neutral in time to avoid the worst of it?
    I want bees that make up for my mistakes.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by gnor View Post
    I set foot in this debate with trepidation.
    What's happening now is that the cost of zero marginal cost energy has fallen to the point where it is displacing carbon fueled plants. India has just cancelled 14 new coal plants in favor of wind/solar, and China, the World's largest manufacturer of electric buses and cars, is also building solar and wind faster than any other country. We in North America have a way to go.
    The big question is, can we become carbon neutral in time to avoid the worst of it?
    Ok I ask this with similar trepidation , what will carbon Neutral, get the USA? is there any proven issues with slight carbon increase, in my plant growth mind the trees and grass grow faster with "more" carbon available. realizing that for many millennia, the grass and forest fires raged, unstopped, and we now shut them down as soon as we can, And there is a good bit of carbon locked up in lumber for homes that has been cut in the past and trees regrowing in the same places. As I recall from my science class not much is destroyed, carbon released in the Atmosphere is recycled back into trees and wood, faster tree growth is more oxygen release. IF we could trap and bury the carbon will not the tree growth slow and Oxygen release slow ? I know the oceans are also involved, but warmer water has faster plankton growth, faster carbon use, so the whole system is somewhat self regulating. where are we today in the 100,000 year graph of carbon in the atmosphere? high middle low? I mean how does one calculate the removal of carbon, by the oceans and trees and grass etc. Not arguing here just trying to understand the big picture. So if we are carbon neutral, I would think Canada is Carbon negative, more than 1/2 their population lives in a 100 mile strip at the north US boarder and most of the rest is trees. All the oceans are Carbon Negative and they cover a lot of the planets surface .
    GG

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Ok I ask this with similar trepidation , what will carbon Neutral, get the USA? is there any proven issues with slight carbon increase, in my plant growth mind the trees and grass grow faster with "more" carbon available. realizing that for many millennia, the grass and forest fires raged, unstopped, and we now shut them down as soon as we can, And there is a good bit of carbon locked up in lumber for homes that has been cut in the past and trees regrowing in the same places. As I recall from my science class not much is destroyed, carbon released in the Atmosphere is recycled back into trees and wood, faster tree growth is more oxygen release. IF we could trap and bury the carbon will not the tree growth slow and Oxygen release slow ? I know the oceans are also involved, but warmer water has faster plankton growth, faster carbon use, so the whole system is somewhat self regulating. where are we today in the 100,000 year graph of carbon in the atmosphere? high middle low? I mean how does one calculate the removal of carbon, by the oceans and trees and grass etc. Not arguing here just trying to understand the big picture. So if we are carbon neutral, I would think Canada is Carbon negative, more than 1/2 their population lives in a 100 mile strip at the north US boarder and most of the rest is trees. All the oceans are Carbon Negative and they cover a lot of the planets surface .
    GG
    one more thing . for me IMO I do not think the system was "designed" to have large blocks of carbon "under ground a mile or 2" Volcanic activity and plate shift and earthquakes would "randomly" release massive amounts at once. As we are still here and the earth is habitable the system can handle large releases. So IMO it can also handle slow releases. Also at one point in time say Day 1 for the earth, there was no carbon burried. the ice ages scraped the trees into a pile and covered it to be pressured into coal , oil etc. Just as burring cash in the back yard in not best for the economy, IMO piles of burried carbon in not the "best" state for the earth. It is a known fact from Ice core samples, from the arctic, we had more Oxygen in the past in the Atmosphere. More Carbon would have more tree growth which would with photo Synthesis produce more Oxygen. Again Carbon neutral is no change, the constant I see with the earth is "always changing" the real driver will be cost, the easy carbon has been pulled up as it costs more we pull less and use more "other" energy, so this will soon pass as an issue any way.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Deep Brook, NS, Canada
    Posts
    605

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Ok I ask this with similar trepidation , what will carbon Neutral, get the USA? is there any proven issues with slight carbon increase, in my plant growth mind the trees and grass grow faster with "more" carbon available. realizing that for many millennia, the grass and forest fires raged, unstopped, and we now shut them down as soon as we can, And there is a good bit of carbon locked up in lumber for homes that has been cut in the past and trees regrowing in the same places. As I recall from my science class not much is destroyed, carbon released in the Atmosphere is recycled back into trees and wood, faster tree growth is more oxygen release. IF we could trap and bury the carbon will not the tree growth slow and Oxygen release slow ? I know the oceans are also involved, but warmer water has faster plankton growth, faster carbon use, so the whole system is somewhat self regulating. where are we today in the 100,000 year graph of carbon in the atmosphere? high middle low? I mean how does one calculate the removal of carbon, by the oceans and trees and grass etc. Not arguing here just trying to understand the big picture. So if we are carbon neutral, I would think Canada is Carbon negative, more than 1/2 their population lives in a 100 mile strip at the north US boarder and most of the rest is trees. All the oceans are Carbon Negative and they cover a lot of the planets surface .
    GG
    There's a lot to digest here, but first I think we need to think on a global scale, because a lot of changes are taking place where we can't see them, or too slowly to notice day by day. The oceans are 1.5 degrees warmer than they were 100 years ago, and becoming more acidic as they absorb more CO2. Ice sheets are melting and the seas are rising, promising to displace a couple of billion people that live in low lying areas. Weather events are already becoming more extreme.
    One thing to realize about forestry is that it's a 100 year cycle, and we only have 10 tears or so to make profound changes. In addition, the 4 feet of soil under a forest contains about 10 times more carbon than the trees contain. Cutting the forest allows the soil to warm, hastening decomposition and releasing carbon dioxide. It takes 100 years more or less to sequester that much carbon again, and now that we are burning a lot of forests for biomass fuel in our power plants, even more carbon is released.
    What you mentioned about plants growing faster with more CO2 is true. They have been doing that in greenhouses for a while. It's also known that faster growth doesn't allow our food plants to store as much vitamins and minerals, and there is concern over widespread malnutrition because of this.
    Canada's Boreal Forest is one of the largest untouched carbon sinks in the World, but it is a cool weather low rainfall forest. Warming weather could push the boundaries Northward, and in a worst case it could disappear into the Arctic Ocean, along with its global benefit as a massive carbon sink.
    Those are some of the physical things I know about. On the human side, rising temperatures will make human life impossible in some parts of the world, and heat deaths will reach epidemic proportions. Migration, famine, economic collapse, and political instability are all very real scenarios under a business as usual policy.
    Some good news: Solar and wind power is now cheaper than all fossil fuels, and battery technology is forging ahead. Technology is there to create hydrocarbons out of atmospheric CO2, water, and electricity, but has a way to go.

    Hope this makes sense.
    I want bees that make up for my mistakes.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,827

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    where are we today in the 100,000 year graph of carbon in the atmosphere? high middle low? I mean how does one calculate the removal of carbon, by the oceans and trees and grass etc. Not arguing here just trying to understand the big picture. So if we are carbon neutral, I would think Canada is Carbon negative, more than 1/2 their population lives in a 100 mile strip at the north US boarder and most of the rest is trees. All the oceans are Carbon Negative and they cover a lot of the planets surface .
    GG
    Just about here:
    https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...carbon-dioxide


    As far as the biomass carbon fixation - the temperate biomass only works 4-6 months out of the year.
    Also, consider - the temperate biomass of the Northern Hemi is much more significant than then Southern Hemi (the Sourthen Hemi is mostly water and ice and Australian deserts).
    And so, the only the Northern temperate biomass is helpful (the Southern less significant).

    So the temperate biomass overall is not that significant - working on carbon fixing only part of the year (it is also largely wiped out - we can plant few trees and restore some prairie, sure - to compensate - but that is really peanuts, overall).

    Where it really counts - the equatorial biomass - works 24/7/365.
    But the equatorial locals there are very busy clearing and burning that biomass what still left - really, really quickly at that.
    Of course the "civilized humans" also help - by buying the rain-forest wood products for their fancy floors and such (like from the next cube from me).
    That's the bad news.
    Last edited by GregV; 10-30-2019 at 10:06 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Venango/Crawford Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,718

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by bushpilot View Post
    Whether I agree with you or not, I am not sure what your goal is in posting.

    If you hoping to convince someone who is not on your side, you probably won't. If you hoping to offend someone who is not on your side, you probably will.
    Although I agree with his post; you're right. Not going to gain anything by slamming someones views.

    Climate Change is here. Finding common ground to work towards saving our planet is what is needed. Not pointing fingers at someone who believes differently than you do. That solves nothing. Sadly China is far ahead in Green Energy; and if we would just work together, we, the US, could create a lot of jobs and pull ourselves up by our boot straps. The problem is in DC... they won't work together to help fix this country. So it's up to us, our Local and State government, to start it and maybe they will follow. As long as Corporate keep their hands out of our leaders pockets. LOL
    "Where wisdom is called for, force is of little use."
    Herodotus (circa 485-425 BC), Greek Historian

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,827

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Scientists can argue.
    Meanwhile every one else should stop polluting.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,942

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    2,717

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Yes, mankind is very good at adapting. Accompanied by fussing, whining and denying. Global warming and pollution are intertwined. When you say global warming is fake, I hear I want to be free to pollute.

    Do you really want leaded gas back? Well sure my old lawn mower does. How about my 12 mpg 59 Chevy with no seat belts and 500 lb bumpers. Hated that change at the time.

    So the 60's predictions of running out of oil in the nineties was wrong. Thank God. But do you think it will not run out? I like oil, I'd like to save a little for later. The easy oil it is gone. the hard oil will eventually be gone as well, predicting when incorrectly does not change that fact.

    Easy coal is gone. Black lung and superfund sights can also go as far as I'm concerned. Funded by tax payers not low electric rate payers. Down wind people can keep their asthma, acid rain and be quiet about it.

    Local benefits over general populations paying for the true costs of pollution is not right. Reminds me of the " If I want to smoke in a restaurant that is my right" attitude. Sorry objecting to your exhaust is my right. You demanding that I reduce mine is yours.

    Now that I've changed all your ways....
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,942

    Default Re: Global Warming

    > When you say global warming is fake, I hear I want to be free to pollute.

    But why do you HEAR that when that is CLEARLY not what is being said. There is a WORLD of difference between CO2 which is a trace gas without which life could not exist and pollution. You would be better off to hear the ACTUAL words, and not the ones you imagine.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglerock View Post
    Although I agree with his post; you're right. Not going to gain anything by slamming someones views.

    Climate Change is here. Finding common ground to work towards saving our planet is what is needed. Not pointing fingers at someone who believes differently than you do. That solves nothing. Sadly China is far ahead in Green Energy; and if we would just work together, we, the US, could create a lot of jobs and pull ourselves up by our boot straps. The problem is in DC... they won't work together to help fix this country. So it's up to us, our Local and State government, to start it and maybe they will follow. As long as Corporate keep their hands out of our leaders pockets. LOL
    "Climate Change is Here"
    Folks Climate has been changing for eons. 2 major Ice ages, Ice miles thick down to Ohio. then receding back to where it is now. There are fossil remains of tropical ferns in Alaska. Climate Change is a "important part of our world" It allows spices to migrate back and forth, north to south and vers visa. Many things can cause this variation. Suns energy output, and volcanic activity are two very big contributors. IMO IF we humans "Stop" climate change the beginning of the end is put in motion. Ice ages occasionally scrape of big parts of the earth to allow "renewal" Volcanoes pump up fresh "stuff" from the core to have a few million years on the surface, and bury other stuff ( virus, Spores, prions, and other things ) that may be bad for the Eco environment, Once it is pushed down to the core of the Magma for a few million years, it is destroyed and made back in to basic building blocks. As we see evidence of Tropical Ferns in Alaska, and 2 major ice ages, and Tectonic plate shift, I personally do not buy the Man make global warming, Come on we have only been in North America for 300 years, in the million year, cycle theory, this 2-5 degree shift is "normal" and has Happened many times, with out humans. Now can we mess the planet up? with enough Nukes probably we can. There was a paper I read that Mount St Helen put more soot and ash in the atmosphere than all the cars in like 20 years. If you wish to stop global warming then preventing the next 4 or 5 volcanic eruptions would be a better place to spend time. As far as invasive species, every species that is still alive needed to invade south during the last 2 ice ages and invade north after they melted. so if a species cannot invade and the climate changes it is eventually stranded and dies out. I am referring to plants here, I have not really spent much time looking at critters. But we can agree that during the last two ice ages the "bees" moved out of Finland and northern Russian, and then post Ice age moved back north. Also if you are in the camp of the trees are saving us, during the Ice age many square miles of forest in north America and Europe were obviously not there. it was covered in Ice. The current "mantra" is save the forest or the planet will "heat up" is an interesting theory, compared to the ice age melting back and trees "invading" the north post the last 2 ice ages. IMO there is lots to learn about climate yet. Remember we humans once thought the world was flat, based on the "current Knowledge of the day" And they jailed the first couple dudes that said the world was round. Lets not criminalize the few people that are "deniers" as they will likely be the ones who are correct. IF we had an 3rd major Ice age today, likely some people would blame humans, and use it to seize power over others . When this is normal activity for the Earth.
    To Summarize climate change have been here for several Million years..............
    Last edited by Gray Goose; 10-29-2019 at 10:05 AM. Reason: clarity

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,827

    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    "Climate Change is Here"
    .... Lets not criminalize the few people that are "deniers" ........
    The "deniers" must be really classified as in:
    - those who deny the "climate is changing at all"
    - those who deny the "humans are at fault" of climate change
    - those who deny "humans need to do anything"
    - those who deny "humans can do anything"
    - those who deny that "climate change causes any significant affects"
    - those who deny that "climate is getting warmer" at their place
    - those who deny that "climate is getting colder" at their place
    - .... OK, I am tired to keep coming up with more brackets; obviously, some of these overlap/intersect.

    In all - the "denier" bracket is not an umbrella.
    These entire talk is meaningless anymore.

    Now, GG, some of the "deniers" actually do deny the "climate is changing at all".
    Even on this exact forum.

    PS:
    I already stated how for the purposes of my daily life the Earth is mostly flat surface (and got mocked about it too);
    this is true for the vast majority of people (whether they admit it or not, if they even thought about it).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •