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Thread: Global Warming

  1. #281
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    JW, I think you miss my point about voting and electoral college. If I live in a red or blue state it does not matter whom I vote for (president) because all the votes will go to a predetermined guy (!). Only a small portion of the population actually choose the winner. Those are the swing states. Their issues get talked about and campaign promises made to them. Everyone else is effectively dissenfranchised. No, in NY my vote does not make a difference for president. That is laughable or "cryable" depending on the news. 😉

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  3. #282
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    PS. Yes both sides play by the same rules. So my candidate either wins or loses but I have nothing to do with the outcome. Why bother having the charade of voting for president anyway if not in a swing state. We could reduce our deficit and maybe even knock off some of the debt of we stopped this foolery and admitted that only a few votes in a few states matter. Or we could end the bogus electoral college and try for a representative democracy. Of course the ruling "class" is very opposed to this for all sorts of seemingly intelligible reasons.

  4. #283
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    I wouldn't call the electoral college bogus, as its pretty clearly laid out in the 12th amendment, but I think its fair to say its antiquated and actually predates a woman's right to vote by over 100 years! Our voting electorate may not be terribly well schooled but we certainly deserve better than having some appointed party hack as a proxy in the event we voters "screw up". Folks should, at the very least, read up on how we came to have the system we now have as I doubt that there are many high schools that are spending a lot of time on this. Its a pretty fascinating story, particularly as it relates to the election of Thomas Jefferson in 1800 (which makes the election of 2000 seem like pretty tame stuff) and as an offshoot was at the root of the infamous duel between Hamilton and Burr. We as a country can and should try to get past partisanship and do better.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  5. #284
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    I believe rather strictly in the Constitution as a default, but jim you may convince me on this one. Do not want to see it until every state is hack free and legitimate. Paper ballots and no hanging chads.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  6. #285
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Unfortunately the Constitution no longer applies, all that now applies is what some fellows in black robes have decided what the Constitution really means according to their views at that point in time. Also many systems are set up that would make governance of the people fair and just, as communism and socialism are meant to be, however human nature being what it is soon rears its ugly head and the idividuals in power soon become corrupt and the system becomes more tyranical for the people being governed. The USA being no exeption, through the history of this republic corruption by elected officials has always been rampant resulting in Washington becoming the swamp or sewer that it is and where corruption is accepted as normal procedure. Ultimately the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the American people for allowing polititians to continue as they are when like fouled napkins they should be thrown out. Just trying to figure out where to go next.

  7. #286
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Many, many, years ago I read a sci-fi story wth the premise that the outcome of a national election could be determined by a single vote. The story followed the person who was selected to be that voter and the attempts to manipulate him. Seemed preposterous at the time. True that your individual vote does not directly affect the outcome, yet it does help derermine if your state is red or blue. I have spent most of my life living in so-called purple states so I am sure I don't feel quite so disenfranchised.

    So... sleet fell last night here in the River City and it was cold enough for it to stick! Winter is finally here.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  8. #287
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Electoral College is so obsolete, it is worse than miles and pounds.

    We lough at stupidly obsolete ordinances that still regulate horse-drawn carts (STILL on the books some places).
    And yet some take the Electoral College seriously as if irreplaceable and set in stone for thousands years.
    All it is a hack so to handle the issue of logistics in 18/19 centuries - totally valid at that time.

    Well, the issue of logistics is no longer.
    Time to drop the darn thing and move on already.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #288
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Temptations from the 60ís:

    People moving out,
    People moving in,
    Why, because of the color of their skin,
    Run, run, run, but you just can't hide.

    An eye for an eye,
    Tooth for a tooth,
    Vote for me and I'll set you free,
    Rap on, brother, rap on.

    Well, the only person talking about loving thy brother is the preacher,
    And it seems nobody's interested in learning, but the teacher,
    Segregation, demonstration, integration, determination, aggravation, humiliation,
    Obligation to our nation.

    Ball of confusion,
    That's what the world is today, hey.

    The sale of pills is at an all time high,
    Young folks walk with their heads in the sky,
    The cities aflame in the summertime,
    And oh the beat goes on.

    Evolution, revolution, gun control, sound of soul-shooting rockets to the moon,
    Kids growing up too soon,
    Politicians say, "More taxes will solve everything,"
    The band played on.

    So, round and around and around we go,
    Where the world's headed, nobody knows

    Oh, Great Googamooga,
    Can't you hear me talking to you,
    Just a ball of confusion,
    That's what the world is today, hey.

    Fear in the air, tension everywhere,
    Unemployment rising fast,
    The Beatles new record's a gas,
    And the only safe place to live,
    Is on an Indian reservation,
    The band played on.

    Eve of destruction, tax deduction,
    City inspectors, bill collectors, mod clothes in demand,
    Population out of hand, suicide, too many bills,
    Hippies moving to the hills,
    People all over the world are shouting, "End the war!",
    And the band played on.

    Great Googamooga,
    Can't you hear me talking to you,
    Just a Ball Of Confusion,

    And so we go.
    Proverbs 16:24

  10. #289
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Say we decide it is time to get rid of the Electoral College. Who gets to decide what mechanism is to replace it? The Democrats? The Republicans? The politically illiterate American populace? We can't even agree on appripriate congressional districs to represent us. I fear screwing with the EC will result in some sort of political gerrymandering on a national level. I would not trust the Supreme Court either. After all, as a body, these are the same bone heads that interpreted the 1st amendment to mean that a nativity scene could not be displayed in a public building during Christmas.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
    I guess they overlooked the prohibiting the free exercise thereof part.

    Our Founding Fathers were incredibly gifted men and their words need no "interpretation". The system of govenance they created nearly 250 years ago has stood the test of time, and the assault of the courts, so far. Do we.really want to be the generation that destroyed America?
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  11. #290
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Those incredibly gifted men are the same ones who determined that the Supreme Court was needed. Three checks and balances.
    If they agree with me they are brilliant, disagree they are boneheads? You seem a little cranked up at the moment.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  12. #291
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Cranked up, nah. Maybe a bit cynical and cautious. If the SCOTUS was really an impartial interpreter of the law, why do so many of their decisions fall on party lines?
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  13. #292
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Because they are picked by Party Lines. Or blocked from the floor of the Senate by an extreme party line.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  14. #293
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    The politically illiterate American populace?
    BINGO!!!
    Everyone just loves to stand around and belly-ache about politicians.
    Yet, it is the low information voters that continue to vote them in over and over.
    I have exactly ONE more hive than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond dispute!

  15. #294
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    I would like to see an effective mechanism of recall. If an elected person fails to follow his promised path jerk him off his comfy seat. That might change a lot of the useless posturing during the run up to elections. Promises are cheap.
    Frank

  16. #295
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Voters are incompetent. Voters are better than the alternatives.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  17. #296
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    Voters are incompetent. Voters are better than the alternatives.
    So very true. I am glad our system allows us the luxury of being able to nitpick it's minor flaws.

    If there one thing I could change about the politcal system, it would be term limits for congressional and senatorial members. 12 years max and then out you go. Career politicians do not do either party any good. Going out on a limb here, but maybe they would be more concerned about doing the job they were elected to do than getting re-elected. Anyhow, we have gotten pretty far away from global warming (guilty as charged). Maybe a few more comments and then a redirect?
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  18. #297
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Oh I do not know if it is that far. Much about why one view is way too little action and the next view is way too much interference. At least nobody is screaming.

    I know I hate Citizens United in spite of the fact the balance of power for individual votes and individual rights of speech may have been correctly decide from a constitutional basis. A case where Activists Judges would have been welcomed by myself.

    Term Limits; We have in Maine for Legislature, it has it's draw backs. The experienced write better bills. The inexperienced bounce around a lot as they go back and fix the screw ups for the last session. Still getting to the point where I think it is worth it.
    Last edited by Saltybee; 01-18-2020 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Term Limits
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  19. #298
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    Not so Harry. Take Senate majority leader: this is a very powerful position. So powerful, in fact, that he can override the constitution in order to stack the courts! This is what ruins America.... All he needs to do is send some bacon back to his state and he will be re-elected. Even by smart voters -- because of course they want their bacon. And if the majority leader does not send home any bacon the smart voters would still elect him, knowing that having a powerful Senate position is good for their interests. Term limits, problem solved. More parties, that problem solved and others begun....
    I agree, electoral college was legitimately "founded" and is part of our constitution. It was put there because the ruling white men were worried what might happen to their power if they allowed each person (read "white man") to vote. There are plenty of things that have been law in the U.S. that are bogus. For example, in order to keep enough power in the south for southern style racism, slaves were (partially) counted as human in the census so there would be more representatives in the House. (Of course, miraculously on the auction block they lost all their humanity and "we" could buy and sell them like cattle.... By the way, if cattle count, I petition that 3/5 of my individual bees be counted in the upcoming census. I am hopeful that some of us would qualify to have our own personal representative in Washington. Maybe then we could get some good ag / bee legislation....)
    So glad we got rid of that bogus power grab with voter supressions. So many more to go-- as soon as we get rid of one some yahoos manage to ram 3 more down our throats. Maybe, hopefully, the electoral college will be on the auction (chopping) block soon.

  20. #299
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    Sounds like it's time to read The Federalist Papers for one's self (again) and then have a informed discussion.
    https://www.congress.gov/resources/d...eralist+Papers

    Can't help but notice how the word "grateful" has not entered the present discussion. Or has it and it's buried in the rubbish?

  21. #300
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    Default Re: Global Warming

    " incredibly gifted men and their words need no "interpretation") - I visited the Jefferson Memorial and believed I read a different proposal about interpretation and change:

    Southeast Portico:
    "I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as a civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

    Interpretation of words - seems to be a game in many ways. Maybe we could convert the constitution into mathematical equations Personally, I like Jefferson's Memorial comments carved in stone.

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