High Tech Beehives
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  1. #1
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    Default High Tech Beehives

    Looking for feedback on using acoustic type listening devices versus weighing hives in order to determine their health. We are part of a project to build a high tech city and one of the requested features is a 100 beehive apiary.

    These are some of the ones we have been researching,

    https://pollenity.com/
    https://www.osbeehives.com/products/buzzbox-mini
    https://apistech.eu/en/
    https://www.apisprotect.com/
    https://www.arnia.co.uk/hive-scales/

    Would love to hear what the community thinks about these types of hives, and which ones would be the best choice.


    Thank you!
    Looking for experts to help advise our non-profit on rebuilding the bee population in PR Karma Honey Project

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by karmahoneyproject View Post
    Looking for feedback on using acoustic type listening devices versus weighing hives in order to determine their health.
    [..]
    Would love to hear what the community thinks about these types of hives ...
    Believe me, you really wouldn't want to hear what I have to say about this kind of nonsense.

    Nothing yet invented beats a human beekeeper using a pair of Mk.I eyeballs.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  4. #3
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    I have noticed with an observation hive that I can tell when they are being or have been robbed by the sound. One sound in the daytime when it is happening, and a different one at night when they were robbed that day. The apiductor has been around for some time to detect when they are swarming. I would guess that detecting and identifying patterns is doable but I have no experience with any of the devices used.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  5. #4
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Believe me, you really wouldn't want to hear what I have to say about this kind of nonsense.

    Nothing yet invented beats a human beekeeper using a pair of Mk.I eyeballs.
    LJ
    Sometimes the truth hurts, but that does not mean I don't want to hear it LJ.

    Hit me! Have you any experience with these types of hives? I am aware many are in initial stages of development...
    Looking for experts to help advise our non-profit on rebuilding the bee population in PR Karma Honey Project

  6. #5
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    I have noticed with an observation hive that I can tell when they are being or have been robbed by the sound. One sound in the daytime when it is happening, and a different one at night when they were robbed that day. The apiductor has been around for some time to detect when they are swarming. I would guess that detecting and identifying patterns is doable but I have no experience with any of the devices used.
    Thank you Michael,

    That is another option, we have built one observation hive but plan to do 12 more with the boys and girls clubs. So what device did you use or suggest, the apiductor or? That would definitely be a nice addition especially to a research/observation hive!
    Looking for experts to help advise our non-profit on rebuilding the bee population in PR Karma Honey Project

  7. #6
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by karmahoneyproject View Post
    Sometimes the truth hurts, but that does not mean I don't want to hear it LJ.
    Good for you !

    Ok - fwiw - acoustic monitoring projects first started back in the 1950's with Woods' Apidictor, a write-up of which was published in 'Bee Craft' in 1965, and even 50-60 years later we're essentially still no further forward with this technology - at least not in any form which can be safely relied upon.

    But my beef with these projects - indeed, with all so-called 'hi-tech' beekeeping monitoring projects - is that their principle objective is always to remove the need for hands-on inspections, and rely upon remote monitoring to perform the same job. This I consider to be a seriously flawed approach, as nothing to my mind can improve upon a hands-on physical inspection by a knowledgeable human beekeeper.

    Support for this viewpoint can be found by looking no further than Boeing's recent experiences with relying upon a sensor to never malfunction and insodoing taking ultimate control of an aircraft away from the pilot. My prediction is that we will see a similar catastrophic scenario with driverless vehicles should they ever become any more than a technologist's pipedream.

    So - if you really want to go down the hi-tech road, I'd suggest doing so as well as physical inspections, rather than instead of them.

    My 2 cents ...
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  8. #7
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Good for you !

    Ok - fwiw - acoustic monitoring projects first started back in the 1950's with Woods' Apidictor, a write-up of which was published in 'Bee Craft' in 1965, and even 50-60 years later we're essentially still no further forward with this technology - at least not in any form which can be safely relied upon.

    But my beef with these projects - indeed, with all so-called 'hi-tech' beekeeping monitoring projects - is that their principle objective is always to remove the need for hands-on inspections, and rely upon remote monitoring to perform the same job. This I consider to be a seriously flawed approach, as nothing to my mind can improve upon a hands-on physical inspection by a knowledgeable human beekeeper.

    Support for this viewpoint can be found by looking no further than Boeing's recent experiences with relying upon a sensor to never malfunction and insodoing taking ultimate control of an aircraft away from the pilot. My prediction is that we will see a similar catastrophic scenario with driverless vehicles should they ever become any more than a technologist's pipedream.

    So - if you really want to go down the hi-tech road, I'd suggest doing so as well as physical inspections, rather than instead of them.

    My 2 cents ...
    LJ
    Oh most definitely it will be in combination with physical inspections. There is also a heat gun we can use I am told? We have an interview with Time Magazine and BBC coming up soon. The angle will be technology. Any feedback is more than appreciated.

    Thank you!

    Devon
    Looking for experts to help advise our non-profit on rebuilding the bee population in PR Karma Honey Project

  9. #8
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Believe me, you really wouldn't want to hear what I have to say about this kind of nonsense.

    Nothing yet invented beats a human beekeeper using a pair of Mk.I eyeballs.
    LJ

    Haha, LJ!

    This reminds me a story from the times of the USSR/USA space programs.
    These were fierce competitors.

    Of course, everyone knows how the US astronauts get to the ISS now days - using those "simple" and "outdated" USSR-technology based Soyuz vehicles.
    Simple is good.
    US Shuttle is dead - too bad.

    One of the episodes of the "space wars" was a pencil.
    NASA spent several M$ to develop a pen so it can write in space (where there is no gravity for the regular pens to write).
    The Russians just smiled at this silly effort over non-existent problem, and kept using what they have been using - a simple, lowly pencil that requires no gravity to write (cost < 1 penny).
    That's the story.

    PS: I Googled prior to writing this and found many controversial versions of this same story;
    whatever, I just posted a version I knew from somewhere for very long time, since before Internet even existed...
    take it or leave it, but it is a good story;
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    ....This I consider to be a seriously flawed approach, as nothing to my mind can improve upon a hands-on physical inspection by a knowledgeable human beekeeper.......My 2 cents ...
    LJ
    +100

    Many years ago now I was a CS undergrad and we used Mosaic/Netscape 1.0 to browse the cool new thing called WWW.
    Internet Explorer did not exist yet.
    Google did not exist yet - you could not google things up.
    You'd use Excite (or Webcrawler or Yahoo or AltaVista) to find things; needed to use several of these tools for the answers were different (IF there were answers).
    Or had to ask about the particular URLs by email or phone or in hand-writing/verbal ways.

    One of the cool and futuristic Internet ideas was - the doctors could now treat you over the Internet (both you and them sitting at home; no need to move your butt to them).
    ~25 years gone by.....

    Of course - this was not going to work.
    I am still going to ER in person, and to do my colonoscopy in person, and give my blood in person, and even visit my good looking female family physician in person (for my periodic checkups!!! ......no wrong ideas now).

    Not sure what these virtual reality people are thinking.
    Sad.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Donno.
    Looked up the "Karma Honey Project".
    Pristine, brand new beekeeping garbs are on the pictures and other similar observations.

    project to build a high tech city and one of the requested features is a 100 beehive apiary.
    This sounds so vary familiar in so many ways.
    Moving along...
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    One of the episodes of the "space wars" was a pencil.
    NASA spent several M$ to develop a pen so it can write in space (where there is no gravity for the regular pens to write).
    The Russians just smiled at this silly effort over non-existent problem, and kept using what they have been using - a simple, lowly pencil that requires no gravity to write (cost < 1 penny).
    That's the story.
    That's an urban legend that has developed a life of it's own. In reality, that's not how it worked, and NASA spent $0.00 developing the ball point pen which was what they used for early space missions. Ink was far preferable to a pencil because it allowed those notes to be stored for long periods (think museums).

    I saw an interesting poster at Apimondia, it was reference a similar urban legend in the beekeeping world that has developed a life of it's own and a cult following. That poster shows in detail how a math mistake was made by a certain beekeeper when they determined 'natural cell size' was 4.9mm, and goes on to show that using the same original source data with no math mistakes ends up with 5.2mm cell size as average. Another urban legend that has developed a life of it's own over time.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    I know we are the new kids. But that is just for optics and marketing. =)

    We have re homed 50 regular non high tech colonies to beehives so far. Here is one of our current projects, we are rescuing 70 colonies from destruction.
    https://karmahoneyproject.com/blogs/...ect-rio-grande

    Now besides the Russia vs USA cold war debate.

    Can we get some feedback on acoustic versus weight / temperature hives.

    Thank you!
    Looking for experts to help advise our non-profit on rebuilding the bee population in PR Karma Honey Project

  14. #13
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by karmahoneyproject View Post
    I know we are the new kids. But that is just for optics and marketing. =)

    We have re homed 50 regular non high tech colonies to beehives so far. Here is one of our current projects, we are rescuing 70 colonies from destruction.
    https://karmahoneyproject.com/blogs/...ect-rio-grande

    Now besides the Russia vs USA cold war debate.

    Can we get some feedback on acoustic versus weight / temperature hives.

    Thank you!
    Well, I would change the optics to "dirty" and "well used" images so to be taken seriously and have better donation response.
    If you work - you get dirty.
    Ditch those "operating room clean" scrubs from your website.
    That'd be my suggestion.

    As far as "....rescuing 70 colonies from destruction"...
    We here do it (the rescuing) for free and ask for no donations.
    We get to keep the bees and stuff.
    OK, the very complicated cases do require monetary compensation.


    Besides, the Puerto-Rico bees are mite-resistant anyway (reportedly).
    What else is there to save?
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by grozzie2 View Post
    That's an urban legend that has developed a life of it's own. ....
    Which I hinted about.

    However, much simpler Russian space program outlasting the much more sophisticated and expensive NASA program does send a message (while having much, much lower funding and surviving through all the political and economic chaos). This one is really the best example of "simple is good".
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Well, I would change the optics to "dirty" and "well used" images so to be taken seriously and have better donation response.
    If you work - you get dirty.
    Ditch those "operating room clean" scrubs from your website.
    That'd be my suggestion.

    As far as "....rescuing 70 colonies from destruction"...
    We here do it (the rescuing) for free and ask for no donations.
    We get to keep the bees and stuff.
    OK, the very complicated cases do require monetary compensation.


    Besides, the Puerto-Rico bees are mite-resistant anyway (reportedly).
    What else is there to save?
    Well, renting the cherrypicker machine isn't cheap. And all of the colonies are on the third story of the apartment buildings. The municipality would much rather exterminate them than pay for the cost of extraction. As for the clean images versus dirty the feedback is appreciated. =)

    Once we get some ground under our feet definitely the beehives and honey production will fund the non profit. We are donating 20 observation hives to the boys and girls clubs and schools here. Those cost a pretty penny!

    Speaking of does anyone have a connection for these, or perhaps plans. We found some videos on youtube. But not with exact specs.
    Looking for experts to help advise our non-profit on rebuilding the bee population in PR Karma Honey Project

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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    On the middle of your front page, "Why are bee's so important?", and further down "Join us in saving the bee's of the world" - the plural of "bee" is "bees."

    And frankly, the honey bee is not endangered, despite rumors to the contrary.

    To your question, I am not a well-experienced beekeeper, but if I were monitoring via technology in Puerto Rico, I would consider weight the first thing to monitor, both because of simplicity, and because it provides known useful information.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by bushpilot View Post
    On the middle of your front page, "Why are bee's so important?", and further down "Join us in saving the bee's of the world" - the plural of "bee" is "bees."

    To your question, I am not a well-experienced beekeeper, but if I were monitoring via technology in Puerto Rico, I would consider weight the first thing to monitor, both because of simplicity, and because it provides known useful information.
    Grammar on those two lines fixed. We give all donors wild pollinator seed mix for all types of bees, not just honey bees.
    Looking for experts to help advise our non-profit on rebuilding the bee population in PR Karma Honey Project

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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    I have no problem with the desire to solicit donations, but some of the phrasing makes my head hurt. Global warming is detrimental to the bees? Assuming such a thing exists, I think not. Bees like it hot. Anyhow, you do not want to save the world's bees. You want to save the very special AHB that exist in PR. I would spend most of my about page explaining how and why that is important. And then ask for them to adopt a hive. The adopt a bee option is disingenuous as we all know that bees have very short life spans.

    Restoring the bee population in PR is not going to come about by the use of high tech gadgets, but by good old-fashioned hands-on beekeeping. I do applaud your efforts and hope that the project is successful.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  20. #19
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    I have no problem with the desire to solicit donations, but some of the phrasing makes my head hurt. Global warming is detrimental to the bees? Assuming such a thing exists, I think not. Bees like it hot. Anyhow, you do not want to save the world's bees. You want to save the very special AHB that exist in PR. I would spend most of my about page explaining how and why that is important. And then ask for them to adopt a hive. The adopt a bee option is disingenuous as we all know that bees have very short life spans.

    Restoring the bee population in PR is not going to come about by the use of high tech gadgets, but by good old-fashioned hands-on beekeeping. I do applaud your efforts and hope that the project is successful.
    Hey JW, thanks for the feedback!

    We definitely need to clean up the "adoption" options. But you have to remember this is all marketing. Kids getting a certificate with sponsorship and wanting to learn more about bees is a very important thing. We also offer a free childrens book to again teach kids about bees and why they are important. Yes we are focused on the gAHB currently but that will definitely be changing we have connected with some influential people lately, Hansjörg Wyss, Edward O Wilson, Marla Spivek and many other top researchers.

    We are not scientists or scholars but hope to leverage the knowledge here to make a positive impact on the environment. Pollinators are incredibly important, bees being recently named the most important animal on earth. People are starting to sit up and listen.

    As for the high tech gadgets, this would be for 100 of the regular 1000 we are building, and to be frank regardless if they work better, or help reduce the amount of time that is needed to beekeep, our goal is to draw more media to the cause.
    Looking for experts to help advise our non-profit on rebuilding the bee population in PR Karma Honey Project

  21. #20
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    Default Re: High Tech Beehives

    Quote Originally Posted by karmahoneyproject View Post
    Can we get some feedback on acoustic versus weight / temperature hives.
    My opinion about acoustic information is that maybe it is to late when bees are starting to buzz differently. For example; statistically the most dangerous thing for my bees is starvation; so information when bees are buzzing "we are hungry" is late, it would be better to know when colony is low with food. The same is for diseases; when bees are buzzing "we are ill" that information is maybe not to late but still late.

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