Why the heck won't they gain weight (after ALOT of feeding). - Page 4
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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Ojai, California
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    Default Re: Why the heck won't they gain weight (after ALOT of feeding).

    After reviewing what little research I could find, it appears that Randy Oliver cites quite a bit more sources than I have read.

    His article, Fat Bees - Part II and Part III notes research by W. Whitcomb Jr., Peng, et al, Doug Sommerville, and a bunch of others, and there are many more articles by our hero, Randy the Great.

    It appears that schedule 77 refers to 77% commercial sugar syrup, full strength, in the HFCS blend. I believe that is the kind that sushi bars blend with soy sauce to drizzle on their sushi treats, so it will most likely be available from the major restaurant suppliers, but of course, I'm going to be reading a lot more of the sources that Randy posts up on www.scientificbeekeeping.com, and I will run the questions by Dr. Gordon Wardell next time I see him. He is the pollen substitute guru of the world, but he likely knows something about liquid feeds vs. beehive colony weight gain as well.

    His research experiments from a few years ago point out an obvious gain that light syrup seems to have over heavy syrup, but pound for pound of sugar, the gains are equal, and for the labor, it is more efficient to just feed the heavy stuff if you are running a lot of colonies. For backyard beekeepers feeding into a hive top feeder, with only a few hives to tend, light syrup (1:1) would be a better choice if labor is not considered.

    Again - heat loss is a problem for those who open hives too often and for too long, so keep the hive box quality up, control the ventilation, insulate what you can reasonably, and let the bees do their thing. Open the hives for inspection every 10 days to 2 weeks in the Spring / Summer, but try to keep it to less than 4 minutes. Learn to read all that you can BEFORE opening the hive by watching the flyout rate, behavior, smelling, listening. Then check out the brood frame for open brood - got open brood? Good! They're queenright. How's the brood pattern? solid? shot? Read the pollen band - what are the bees seeing - plenty of pollen and brood in production? making drones? If not what's the next move? THEN CAREFULLY CLOSE THE HIVE UP.

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
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    Default Re: Why the heck won't they gain weight (after ALOT of feeding).

    Dr. Gordon Wardell at megabee.com says that the Schedule 77 adds weight because it is so much closer to the consistency of honey, and they'd have to dehydrate the schedule 55 stuff quite a bit. He kindly sends a couple of suppliers: Cargill and Sweetner Products, Company.

    BIG THANK YOU, Dr. Wardell!!!!

    Cargill Inc.
    Minneapolis, MN
    1 (800) 227-4455

    ***************************

    Sweetner Products, Company
    1 (800) 305-2200
    2050 E. 38th Street
    Vernon, California 90058

    1150 E. Thurman Street
    Lodi, California 95241

    S. 194th Street
    Kent, Washington 98032

  4. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Catskills, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
    Posts
    1,680

    Default Re: Why the heck won't they gain weight (after ALOT of feeding).

    Thanks for the info Charlie. Deb
    Proverbs 16:24

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    299

    Default Re: Why the heck won't they gain weight (after ALOT of feeding).

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    Dr. Gordon Wardell at megabee.com says that the Schedule 77 adds weight because it is so much closer to the consistency of honey, and they'd have to dehydrate the schedule 55 stuff quite a bit. He kindly sends a couple of suppliers: Cargill and Sweetner Products, Company.

    BIG THANK YOU, Dr. Wardell!!!!

    Cargill Inc.
    Minneapolis, MN
    1 (800) 227-4455

    ***************************

    Sweetner Products, Company
    1 (800) 305-2200
    2050 E. 38th Street
    Vernon, California 90058

    1150 E. Thurman Street
    Lodi, California 95241

    S. 194th Street
    Kent, Washington 98032

    I wasn't able to find any prices online.

    Does anyone here know what sort of prices this schedule 77 syrup goes for, compared to regular sugar ?

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    2,623

    Default Re: Why the heck won't they gain weight (after ALOT of feeding).

    Did you call them on the phone? The sales person should be very willing to quote you a price.

    ****************
    BTW - an idea just struck me...I think I will make a hive top feeder with 2 (Don the Fat Bee Man type) ramps, one leading into a container of 1:1 and one leading into a container of 2:1 syrup, and let the bees decide what they want. That could really lead to some interesting info, possibly even an advantage over the beek' guessing what syrup to feed this week? No patent idea here, so go for it - public domain idea, copy it improve on it, pass it along. I hope it leads to some better beekeeping. Hare Krishna!

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