What is treatment free? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    What kind of money does that larvae juice fetch.

    Price of honey here has tanked, looking at all options.
    I don't know OT.
    Market in the US does not exist.
    I imagine you have no market either.

    Very quick Google of Russian market; first hit of many; the price in Rubles (convert as needed; of course, the prices are appropriate for their level)
    If any decent scale, the beeks sell the raw larvae juice (frozen - a must) to the retail product manufacturers.
    Now days some people started drying the "juice" in special equipment (can be pricey; essentially lab grade - but if going up scale, should pay off).

    https://tiu.ru/Trutnevyj-gomogenat.html

    Similar in Ukraine:
    https://prom.ua/Trutnevyj-gomogenat.html (in Grivnas).

    The beeks should be looking ahead and developing the larvae juice, bee bread and the like food supplement markets with appropriate prices.
    Not sitting on the honey wagon, like we are in 19th century of sorts.


    PS: I like the term you called it - the drone larva juice; works for me.
    Last edited by GregV; 10-01-2019 at 08:17 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Hmm that's interesting.

    Exporting food comes with a lot of hassles but there is a sizeable Asian market here. I'll talk to some Asian friends and see what they want and if we can work something out.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  4. #23
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Hmm that's interesting.

    Exporting food comes with a lot of hassles but there is a sizeable Asian market here. I'll talk to some Asian friends and see what they want and if we can work something out.
    Actually, yes!
    Check the Asians.
    Very well the drone larva juice is known there.
    For sure, they already eat it.
    Why not make juice capsules, etc, etc??!!
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  5. #24
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Actually, yes!
    Check the Asians.
    Very well the drone larva juice is known there.
    For sure, they already eat it.
    Why not make juice capsules, etc, etc??!!
    According to google, the drone juice is well known and highly regarded in China and Japan.
    I imagine there is some market there too (in fact, the Eastern Euro probably just copied the idea, pretty typical).

    Why, very quickly I found good documentation on drone brood cultivation and harvesting:
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...9.2016.1226606
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    OK well i picked up the phone and called my Chinese friend who is a hobby beekeeper and runs a food production company, he thinks the idea has merit we are going to work something out.

    He's got a factory, speaks the needed languages, and I have the bees.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  7. #26

    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Here in Finland some restaurants buy drone larvae, for cooking.

    I know some beekeepers just fry them on a pan with butter.

    Crickets were the first insect food.

  8. #27
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    Covington County, Alabama, USA
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    I will sometimes eat drone pupae out of the hives. Not larvae. A fully developed drone pupa is actually kind of tasty. Reminds me of coconut.

  9. #28

    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Sorry, I meant pupa!

  10. #29
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    OK well i picked up the phone and called my Chinese friend who is a hobby beekeeper and runs a food production company, he thinks the idea has merit we are going to work something out.

    He's got a factory, speaks the needed languages, and I have the bees.
    Here you go!
    Hope something works out; keep posted.

    Now, this got me thinking - we DO have a lot of Asians here too.
    Doh!
    I need to go and visit a couple of local Asian food markets and see what are the offers there.
    That what I should do as well and see.
    We got several Oriental grocery stores in the area.
    I have lots of Hmong around here; garden together, in fact.

    But I also have a large Eastern Euro population here (even "Russian Foods" grocery store is running).
    I am maybe at the level now to start making some local proposals for the next season.
    Chemical-free. Local. Russian-speaker. Traditional Old-World beekeeping. Apiary tours for those interested.
    I could be just the thing!
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  11. #30
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleSpider View Post
    I have read a little and am confused, can someone please explain what treatment free beekeeping means?
    This contains one definition: https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...ue-Forum-Rules
    David Matlock

  12. #31
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Sorry, I meant pupa!
    Glad you cleared that up!! I have eaten graftings of 1 - 2 day old larva with royal jelly. Just ate it off the grafting tool. Almost tasteless to me, and no texture to speak of. I don't think I could pop a fat larva in my mouth though! Maybe an odd place to "draw the line," but that is where mine is drawn.

  13. #32
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by psm1212 View Post
    Glad you cleared that up!! I have eaten graftings of 1 - 2 day old larva with royal jelly. Just ate it off the grafting tool. Almost tasteless to me, and no texture to speak of. I don't think I could pop a fat larva in my mouth though! Maybe an odd place to "draw the line," but that is where mine is drawn.
    By the time they get to the purple eye stage I find them a bit on the chewy side. Have never tried them cooked though. Doubt that raising bees for food production is very efficient unless getting rid of brood also served some other benefit as explored in the thread on culling capped brood to prevent swarming.
    Frank

  14. #33
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    .......... unless getting rid of brood also served some other benefit as explored in the thread on culling capped brood to prevent swarming.
    Getting rid of drone brood is one of the mite treatments; no?
    That is the only "treatment" allowed in Cuba, as we recently found out.
    So, that's the benefit - one shot - two rabbits down - no chems involved.

    Heck, if you industrially raise drone brood for pressing larvae juice out of it - it is a win all way around.

    BTW, those larva/pupa - make excellent food (or food supplement) for the pets and the like..
    A hint.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  15. #34
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    woodland, wa usa
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    It is an extremely vague and misused term, often only addressing whether or not a beekeeper does or doesn't use certain chemicals (of which sugar dusting may not be one of them) to control/kill varroa mites.

    Me thinks a better term would be "management free", since in the so called "treatment free" beekeeping, there are many functions (treatments!) done to attempt to lower the mite numbers.

    I would love to see the results of truly "management" free beekeeping on hives, purely and specifically selecting for hygienic. Count the losses, set aside those that make it and use them to grow hive numbers. And see whether varroa is controllable.

  16. #35
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnqpblk View Post
    Me thinks a better term would be "management free"....
    The "management free" is even MORE confusing.
    The management includes treatments of various levels and different goals (including - none), splitting (i.e. unit number management and queen management), swarm management, comb management, yard management, what-have-you management.... Let's not go there, please.


    Even the bee tree runners still manage their bee trees (believe you or not).
    There is a lot of management in that line of business even though they are the most treatment-free bee-business operators I can think of.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  17. #36
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    Rosebud Missouri
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    jnqp.....
    It is an extremely vague and misused term, often only addressing whether or not a beekeeper does or doesn't use certain chemicals (of which sugar dusting may not be one of them) to control/kill varroa mites.
    How can the link that riverderwent posted be considered vague and misused? It seemed to lay it out pretty clear to me when used in this forum format.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  18. #37
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    In Africa bee larva and bee pupa are a sort after food source and, on finding a wild bee nest, often with the help of the honey bird, which is looking for scraps after the man has raided the nest, the man will eat the brood hot and fresh from the tree hollow. Portion taken home to feed the family. Bee nest raiding is also true in Nepal.

  19. #38
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    Jun 2015
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    Lane, Oregon, USA
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    Default Re: What is treatment free?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post

    My sole concession so far is to switch to using OA, a naturally occuring chemical in plants, and giving up the use of Apivar, which is synthetic.
    JW, How often do you treat with OA, and what method do you use, dribble or vapor?
    Thank you

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