Apivar / mite issue
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Gatlinburg, Tennessee USA
    Posts
    24

    Default Apivar / mite issue

    Getting ready to say goodbye to a hive soon. I put Apivar in August 1 and checked today. There were several bees with deformed wings, you can see a mite on a bee in one of the pictures, and the brood doesn’t look too good. This was a package installed on drawn comb that was thriving and was treated with OAV 2 times before supers were put on in May. No treatments of any kind from May through end of July when the supers were on. There were other hive that have the exact same fact pattern and issues. Questions: is the dead uncapped brood in the pictures due to mites? How in the world can you keep bees from dying due to mites?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    250

    Default Re: Apivar / mite issue

    You might wanna test that for foulbrood.
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  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Sevierville TN
    Posts
    111

    Default

    It looks like mites and looks like they had a little food. i had a hive a few weeks ago had a bad patten and diying larvea looked like efb or pms but they were just starving and a few gallons of syrup and pollen patty looked today and brood looks alot better nice white larvea. But your hive looks like its to far gone to save even if it was that make sure they have bands of food on most of the frames the hive that i had starving had one or two frames of a little honey but not a drop on frames 2-8 its been really hot and dry here. Ive not saw much nectar since the sourwoods in july so there isnt any nectar coming in right now with no rain in sight so any hive i took most of the honey from ive had to feed syrup to to keep from slowing down or starving but looks like pms to me how many boxs was this hive during treatment and how many strips did you use?
    Last edited by mybodyisatemple76; 09-22-2019 at 06:37 AM. Reason: Spelling

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    10,038

    Default Re: Apivar / mite issue

    Yes that strip has definately failed.

    A few things. First, the strip does not look like it's had a lot of bee traffic, it looks pretty unused. Based on the appearance of the strip, my guess is the hive was pretty far gone when the strip went in, possibly past the point where the bees can clean up.

    Other than that, I had exactly the same thing last year but in stronger hives, I realised the particular strips had been left on a bench for a month or so where they got sun every day, could be they were cooked and therefore didn't work. I saved those hives with bayvarol, then next treatment i used apivar just to see what would happen, and it worked.

    The only way to save a hive such as that is see if the queen is still alive, and if so, add some brood and bees, and an effective treatment. Given that I don't know your climate, and if it is too late in the season for enough recovery time before winter.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Gatlinburg, Tennessee USA
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Thanks you all. That frame was in the upper deep and the hive is weakening. I used the Apivar as directed, 2 strips per box. I did not pull frames to check for brood, there was a lot of work going on that day as we were removing supers and putting in Apivar. We did look in the boxes and place strips in the middle 4 frames. That particular strip does not look trafficked. I am not sure about the traffic on the 2 or 3 other hives that I also think are gone due to mites. The evidence of mites is certainly there, but the only other thing I could have done was use a treatment across the yard that can be used with supers on, such as MAQS. Again, I don’t see how anyone keeps a hive alive nowadays.

    I had ordered the Apivar in April and had kept it in a cool dark place.

    Oldtimer, we are probably a month away from a good frost.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    442

    Default Re: Apivar / mite issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    Thanks you all. That frame was in the upper deep and the hive is weakening. I used the Apivar as directed, 2 strips per box. I did not pull frames to check for brood, there was a lot of work going on that day as we were removing supers and putting in Apivar. We did look in the boxes and place strips in the middle 4 frames. That particular strip does not look trafficked. I am not sure about the traffic on the 2 or 3 other hives that I also think are gone due to mites. The evidence of mites is certainly there, but the only other thing I could have done was use a treatment across the yard that can be used with supers on, such as MAQS. Again, I donít see how anyone keeps a hive alive nowadays.

    I had ordered the Apivar in April and had kept it in a cool dark place.

    Oldtimer, we are probably a month away from a good frost.
    Really bees are not hard to keep alive.

    Unfortunately we don't know any details about what you started with other than a package. If we knew what type of mite load you had with that package that would be more helpful. And you had more than one hive---were they all packages or overwintered and if overwintered what type of shape were they in? We do know that OAV isn't exactly an efficient mite treatment. The more brood you have the less impact it has. In TN by May, I'm guessing you had a substantial amount of brood. On a package with virtually no mites to begin with, you could be fine until fall with no OAV at all. But on a package that started with a mite load to begin with and then had brood by the time you used OAV the results could be substantially different. And even starting with a low mite count package and doing a couple of treatments, if they were sitting in an overwintered yard that was overrun with mites to begin with the end results could be bad.

    Keep in mind when you start talking treatments, there isnt anything great. Formic has some positives but it isnt without problems and in the summer heat of TN you may have some issues. OAV has its followers but its really best when there is no brood or it requires repeated applications in the very best scenario. Thymol works but does leave most residuals to carry over. Apivar can work or it can fail. Sounds like you may have got to these bees too late but using apivar may have then added to the issue. the active ingredient amitraz has been used for a very long time. it was the first miticide on the market in US when varroa first arrived. it has a long history of use and misuse and no shortage of reports of it not working at the low concentrations within the apivar strips in some particular bee/mite populations. If you are going to use apivar, you really should have some idea of initial mite count, see if you get a mite drop and then look at final mite count (particularly if you are dealing with bees coming out of commercial setting)

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Gatlinburg, Tennessee USA
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Apivar / mite issue

    They sure are hard for me to keep alive. The only thing I can think of other than just treating too late with Apivar, is there were over wintered hives in the yard. However, they were treated in the winter and early spring with OAV. The supplier said that the package had been treated, obviously I cannot be sure, but I trust them. Plus they were treated within a month of installation. I guess my point is if you have package that is mite free (presumably), and it is treated a couple of times in the spring with OAV, and then in August with Apivar, is it reasonable to expect it would at least not have these problems?

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA, USA
    Posts
    406

    Default Re: Apivar / mite issue

    so far you haven't said anything about you mite counts (unless I missed it). That is one of the things you need to do to understand what is going on.
    8 years, 8 hives

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Springfield, IL
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: Apivar / mite issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    They sure are hard for me to keep alive. The only thing I can think of other than just treating too late with Apivar, is there were over wintered hives in the yard. However, they were treated in the winter and early spring with OAV. The supplier said that the package had been treated, obviously I cannot be sure, but I trust them. Plus they were treated within a month of installation. I guess my point is if you have package that is mite free (presumably), and it is treated a couple of times in the spring with OAV, and then in August with Apivar, is it reasonable to expect it would at least not have these problems?

    Scientific beekeeping with Randy Olliver. Based on the little that I know, I would surmise you didn't feed supplements/protein. Treatments are great, but unhealthy bees are unhealthy regardless of treatment.

    Read up on Randy's great insight to nutrition or read the Australian Fat bee skinny bee pdf. Great stuff. Good luck.

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