Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV? - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    I've never once used the Dribble Method, nor have I ever been tempted to use it - not because of what others say or claim - positive or negative - but for 3 reasons.
    Firstly, the presence of sugar syrup will undoubtedly cause the bees to ingest some of the solution. I also question why sugar is needed as a carrier.
    Secondly, I question the uniformity of spread - with those at the top of the seam getting wet, whilst those at the bottom will stay dry. There is therefore a reliance upon bee to bee spreading of OA, which may not be that effective, especially during winter.
    Thirdly, and most importantly, for maximum effect OAD requires a hive to be fully exposed during winter, and wetting the bees during a very cold time of the year.

    It's also more labour intensive than VOA, but that isn't a factor in my own decision-making.

    Spraying OA solution would undoubtedly provide more guaranteed coverage, but would involve more disruption and exposure at a time when the bees benefit most from being left in peace.
    LJ

    PS - this isn't 'an attack' against OAD - it's just never appealed to me as a treatment, when contrasted with VOA.
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    Below is an example of how results can be misleading. Not deliberately so, but there can often be incidental effects that could be seen to discount the basic premise. Note in the highlighted words the time frame of the OA vaporizations which are much further apart than presently considered most effective.

    For what little that is worth I think the applications with glycerine as the carrier will be seen to have a timed release benefit. Also, as compared to sugar syrup, glycerine appears unpalatable to bees so less likely to be ingested. The instant, and no hive opening benefits of the vaporising method can be used to advantage but the shortfalls of it should be well recognized.


    "The glycerin dribble caused by far the greatest initial increase in mite drop--the other three were about the same. The two dribbles resulted in the best mite reduction initially, but by Day 26, all four colonies exhibited roughly 50% reductions in their alcohol wash counts from baseline--after a single dribble, compared to three vaporizations at roughly 10-day intervals. Keep in mind, that there was an n of only one for each treatment, so don't run too far with this data.

    The above results suggest that the added humectants increased the efficacy of the OA greatly--initially as well as over time, and indicate that the
    effect of the crystals from vaporization is very short term (this is supported by Saskia Schneider's findings)". http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/w...L&D=0&P=115030

    it took 3 OAVs to have the same effect as one dribble"
    Frank

  4. #63
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    Oct 2011
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    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    I find with two OAVs during no brood period in late fall and Apivar in early spring, mites are very minimal. This is consistent with what Ian Steppler is finding. We do have a distinct winter for 5 months. I did a OAV and installed a sticky board for 4 days to check mite infestation in early Sept and counted less than 10 mites per hive.

    Vaporization is the only practical way(IMHO) in late fall. Opening a hive and exposing both brood boxes and dribbling a wet syrup is not good. One needs to dribble each brood box to get an effective control. One is also breaking propolis seal.

    I use the Varrox on my four hives and time is not a factor. It takes 30 mins tot at each location, as there is two hives at each location. There is little vapor exposure when one is standing 10 ft away, so very safe to use.

    If I had more hives, a band heater type vaporizer and vapor mask reduces would be the next logical step as the time is 30 secs per hive.
    Zone 3b. If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  5. #64
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    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    LJ... I dissagree on ALL points

    1 when they do that It knocks back Nosema ceranae https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...34528815300333. Tests with water have failed. seems its a carer and helps with the spread.

    2 post 53, they did a cat scan in 2mm slices to see the spread. Bee to be contact spreads dribble, vap nees the convention currents of the hive and lose cluster.. thats why dribbles appulaction temp is lower then vap

    3 not a single study shows this to be an issue.. if its cold enuf for that to be an issue, the cluster is too tight of vap to be effective any way..

    labor? ... I step out of the truck and get to work. My new tool is a home depto spray bottle... 1.5ml a pump.. split a box, 4 pumps per seam . In a small yard I am back on the road before I could have drug out the batt and got the band heater up to temp, much less waited for it to cool after I was done.

  6. #65
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    Fine - then you use Dribble, and I'll use VOA. Both of us will be using methods which we're happy with, and so there's nothing left to argue about. I'm NOT advocating that others don't use Dribble - that's up to them - I've just given my reasons why I've never once seriously considered using that method. I don't really care much about what 'studies show': I used to be a scientist and am well-aware of the scientific games which are played. Once my Crown Boards (Inner Covers) have been replaced after the last inspection of the season, they NEVER come off again until Spring. The bees want them sealed-up, and so they stay sealed.

    These days I have zero over-wintering losses (plenty of mating failures during the season - but that's a whole different can of worms), and so I'm using this success rate as a barometer by which to judge mite levels, as I've never done a mite count in my life and I'm not going to start now. The day I lose a single colony over the winter period is the day I'll re-assess how I go about tackling the mite problem. "If it ain't broke, then don't fix it."

    This thread is entitled, "Is it tougher and tougher ... etc.", to which my answer is "For me, no - quite the opposite."
    'best
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  7. #66
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    I've just given my reasons why I've never once seriously considered using that method.
    Green eggs and ham Sam I am.
    Fine - then you use Dribble, and I'll use VOA
    I use bolth, I build haunted houses so this is the busy time for me, no way could I make 4 trips to all my yards to vape them .Not trying to change your winter ways, just was pointing out that dribble might be a better choice for your "belt and braces"

    This thread is entitled, "Is it tougher and tougher ... etc.", to which my answer is "For me, no - quite the opposite."
    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    VOA only for this European. Until this year, 1x treatment in late December kept Varroa in check. This year I've added a 4x 5-day program (last dose tomorrow), as a 'belt and braces' measure..
    LJ
    I find it odd then that you are now using 400% more treatments, after 8 years of zero winter losses.... Most would take that as things getting harder
    For most of us a single bloodless treatment isn't going to be enuff to get to zero winter loss as you did

  8. #67
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    May 2015
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    Skaneateles, NY
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    i have had the best success rotating between OAV, Formic pro and apivar.
    This time of the year my MP style nucs which im not taking honey from all have apivar strips on and the production colonies all have formic pro on.
    The second round of formic pro will go on in a week or so then nothing until early November/late october when i will use OAV. They will get OAV again in december x 1 round.
    I wanted to put apivar on everyone but there is still a lot of honey on the production colonies that i was unable to extract just due to a family crisis going on at the moment.

  9. #68
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    I find it odd then that you are now using 400% more treatments, after 8 years of zero winter losses.... Most would take that as things getting harder
    Sure - but they'd be drawing the wrong conclusions. I'm now choosing to increase the number of treatments - primarily because it's so easy to do with the latest kit. I don't really need to - it's purely that I want to - in the interests of keeping healthy bees.

    Zero winter losses simply means that they all 'survived' - what I'm trying to achieve now is to ensure that they enter winter with a seriously reduced mite load and so endure the winter period comfortably, and then emerge in Spring as strong as possible - something rather more than 'just survival'.

    It's not that the situation has become 'tougher' - it's that I've raised the level of expectation.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  10. #69

    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Sure - but they'd be drawing the wrong conclusions. I'm now choosing to increase the number of treatments - primarily because it's so easy to do with the latest kit. I don't really need to - it's purely that I want to - in the interests of keeping healthy bees.
    Like TF
    or IMP
    or OAD
    or IMHO
    this could have an own shortening:
    CITANW =Choosing to Increase Treatments Although they donīt Need t but I Want

  11. #70
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    >I would suggest that there is a higher concentration of honeybee colonies per given area of land mass in the United States than anywhere else on earth.

    Very doubtful. Even in a populated state like New York there are places very remote and unpopulated such as Hamilton County where there are only 2 people per square mile. Then you get out West where places like Cherry County Nebraska have less than 1 person per square mile and the county is 2/3 the size of New Jersey. Cherry county Nebraska is bigger than Connecticut, Rhode Island and Delaware... My guess is that All of Europe has a higher density of bees by what people there tell me.

    Now one county in California every February has the higher concentration of honeybee colonies per given area of land mass than anywhere else on earth...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  12. #71
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    Default Re: Is it tougher and tougher to control mites with OAV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Like TF
    or IMP
    or OAD
    or IMHO
    this could have an own shortening:
    CITANW =Choosing to Increase Treatments Although they donīt Need t but I Want
    Naughty, naughty ...

    I didn't say they don't need it - I said: "I don't really need to - it's purely that I want to - in the interests of keeping healthy bees."
    ... and it isn't simply an increase in treatments - it's treating at the end of summer in order to ensure the production of healthy winter bees - thanks to Samuel Ramsey we now know the importance of this.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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