Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally! - Page 2
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 29 of 29
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,753

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    Earthboy, I am all for limited use of both pesticides and herbicides, but I believe the benefits of glyphosate far outweigh the potential disadvantages. As mentioned before, no-till farming saves fuel, reduces CO2 emissions, and is better for the soil. I see you are in OK, do some research on the dust bowl.

    Or maybe you would be more comfortable with the herbicide Gramoxone?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraquat
    Last edited by JWPalmer; 09-10-2019 at 06:44 PM.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    10,038

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthboy View Post
    Roger that:

    Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant. It is an organophosphorus compound, specifically a phosphonate, which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. It is used to kill weeds, especially annual broadleaf weeds and grasses that compete with crops. It was discovered to be an herbicide by Monsanto chemist John E. Franz in 1970. Monsanto brought it to market for agricultural use in 1974 under the trade name Roundup. . . .


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate
    Earthboy that little cut and paste from Google did not answer my question at all.

    Google the difference between pesticides and herbicides.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,454

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    I get the feeling that there may be some confusion as to the meaning of the word 'systemic', as if that indicates some kind of bogeyman.

    It's best understood by looking at a non-systemic herbicide such as Paraquat, which operates on the exposed 'green tissue', where it interferes with photosynthesis and insodoing kills the leaves - or 'burns them off' as our local farmers used to say. Ideal then for killing-off grasses, but won't kill those plants which have deep tap roots or other forms of reserve - those plants will recover and simply send up fresh leaves in due course.

    Systemic herbicides such as glyphosate are taken well down into the living plant before beginning their action, so that the roots are also affected.

    Please Google how pesticide-treated seeds express the chemicals systemically. That is through its roots, stems, leaves, pollen, nectar, and flowers.
    Sure, they are also systemic in their action - but they are pesticides, NOT herbicides - their action is NOT to kill the plant itself, but to kill insects which come into contact with it.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    10,038

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    How i took it, was that to Earthboy, Pesticides ='s bad. He has Googled that some pesticides are systemic. Therefore systemic ='s bad. Glyphosate is systemic, therefore glyphosate ='s bad.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,454

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    That was exactly my thinking about Earthboy's take on the word 'systemic' too.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  7. #26
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    I get the feeling that there may be some confusion as to the meaning of the word 'systemic', as if that indicates some kind of bogeyman.

    It's best understood by looking at a non-systemic herbicide such as Paraquat, which operates on the exposed 'green tissue', where it interferes with photosynthesis and insodoing kills the leaves - or 'burns them off' as our local farmers used to say. Ideal then for killing-off grasses, but won't kill those plants which have deep tap roots or other forms of reserve - those plants will recover and simply send up fresh leaves in due course.

    Systemic herbicides such as glyphosate are taken well down into the living plant before beginning their action, so that the roots are also affected.



    Sure, they are also systemic in their action - but they are pesticides, NOT herbicides - their action is NOT to kill the plant itself, but to kill insects which come into contact with it.
    LJ
    Precisely what I meant and thank you for taking your time to elaborate the details. The keyword here being "to kill insects which come into contact with." It is my fault to assume that posters here would know the very basics of systemic operation.

    Thank you for avoiding ad hominem.

    Earthboy
    Last edited by Earthboy; 09-11-2019 at 08:04 AM.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,152

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    While I would love to see glyphosate banned here too, I cannot believe it will ever happen. In my area having a small patch of grass in the garden in the fall means the garden will be a lawn by spring. Our winters are so mild that grass and weeds keep on growing the entire time. If farmers could not kill the spring weeds in a quick and inexpensive way, they would all be out of business in year 2. It is easy enough for me to pull the grass out and compost it every year but to do it on the scale of even a small farm would cost a fortune in time and labor. I applaud the efforts in Europe in the attempt to eliminate pesticides and herbicides but I do not see a good outcome for the farmers. I am hoping I am wrong.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,909

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    Quote Originally Posted by dudelt View Post
    While I would love to see glyphosate banned here too......... I applaud the efforts in Europe in the attempt to eliminate pesticides and herbicides but I do not see a good outcome for the farmers. I am hoping I am wrong.
    As applied to glyphosate - it is largely a requirement for the no-till methods of farming since now days it is in vogue "to preserve the soil".

    Well, I challenge the agrarians to review the cost-benefit of no-till vs. conventional till vs. conversational till.
    Then see what really can be done if started anew vs. the currently conventional sledge-hammer approaches like the "no-till plus carpet herbicide applications".

    For example, here is a good start:
    https://cropwatch.unl.edu/tillage/advdisadv
    https://cropwatch.unl.edu/tillage/

    This is a non-ending spiral at it is:
    The common response to precarious technology is to add even more technology to solve the problems caused by earlier technology.
    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/w...=pocket-newtab
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM, U.S.
    Posts
    249

    Default Re: Germany to ban glyphosate to save insects, finally!

    ' If not ___, then what?'

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •