Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

Did I kill my Queen? NNOOOOO!

9K views 34 replies 16 participants last post by  jigsaw 
#1 ·
I have a emergency question. I opened one of my hives to remove the apivar strips. Did that successfully. Then I was checking my bottom box and spotted the queen so I decided to mark her. My first attempt ever by the way. I didnt squeeze her hard but when I pulled the plunger down she wasn't moving. Her thorax was pulsing and it looked like eggs were coming out it. I put her back on a top bar and she slowly sank into the hive still not moving but pulsing. Is she dead? Im pretty upset with myself for that. There were eggs in the upper box so I hope the can supercede her if she is dead. And the worst part is she's our best queen. Quick build up, super calm and best honey producer out of our 3 hive. I think shes a Carniolan, black in color.
 
#2 ·
I think you know the answer to this already.

Most queen marking tubes have soft foam inserts to keep from crushing the queen. Nonetheless, you only need to push the plunger up far enough to immobilize her, not to flatten her. :eek:

FWIW, I have just started this year marking my queens. Always been afraid of fat fingers and poor motor control.
 
#3 ·
Ugh! Judging by your answer shes dead. I even put softer foam on the plunger to prevent this. I may have to start practicing on hand picking drones then move to a queen. Next year. Isn't it a little late in the season for a supercedure? what are the odd this hive will make it through the winter?
 
#28 ·
Yup, when I got my queen marking thingy, I practice every year on drones first. Sorry for your loss, I know how frustrating it can be. I've been lucky so far. I'm usually so nervous when I attempt to catch one of my queens, I keep missing her, so none of my 4 queens are marked, but I always have the tools handy, just in case.
 
#4 ·
It is late. MB would be better suited to tell you what is possible there in Omaha. I am trying a few late season queens just for practice. I have no intention of making a new split with them, but maybe replace a poor performing queen or two so that brood production is uninterrupted. If you still have drones it could happen, but by the time a new queen is laying, it will be October. I would put the odds at less than 50/50 the hive survives by trying to make a new queen. Order a new one on tuesday after you do an inspection and see queen cells started by monday. Who knows, you may see eggs, but that is really unlikely.
 
#5 ·
Dang it! I pm'd him. Im feelin pretty gun shy about opening em up that early. I really liked this queen and her genetics. Hardly any SHB, Not aggressive, great build up and best honey stores. how do you mark your queens? use a tube and plunger or by hand?
 
#7 ·
Personally, I use the one handed queen catcher from Mann Lake. I am not good enough to catch them by hand yet. I can mark my newly emerged virgins by hand though as they are easy to handle fresh out of the incubator.

Combining a nuc with a hive when you lose a queen late in the season is one of the primary reasons to have nucs. I would absolutely wait until you see queen cells to verify the queen did not survive. No point in combining until you know for sure. Give them until Monday and if you see qc's, tear them all down and combine the nuc with the hive using a sheet of newspaper between the two. You can make a transition board out of a piece of plywood cut to fit the outside of the hive with a hole in it cut to the inside dimensions of the nuc. You can see these in bee supply catalogs but they are super simple to make.

Let us know how the hive looks on Monday. These things happen. When my State inspector checked my hives earlier this year, we accidentally alcohol washed the queen in one of my hives. Oops.
 
#8 ·
If they start cells, do as JWP says and tear them down. Be prepared to have to tear them down twice though, since viable full function queens can be made up to 5 days from the last egg laid, and partial caste queen for a bit longer. This is not the usual case but I have been bitten by it and lost a valuable queen.

I am presently waiting out that exact scenario not knowing whether I rushed the process a week ago. I found a few more started cells about the time the introduced queen should have gotten out of the cage. She may have been accepted or they might be queenless.

About that oops! I have a strong suspicion I had that happen too! Cells 3 days after the inspector left!
 
#9 ·
Thanks guys for the info. Puts me a little more at ease about losing my star queen. The nuc has a queen form a lesser hive in comparison to the three. Not as aggressive as my other one but not the hard worker as my dead queen. ugh i didnt think queens were so fragile.
 
#10 ·
Occasionally when I mark a queen, she faints. Had one this summer. She flew off the comb when I tried to catch her...flew right into my hand. She immediately fainted. Thought she was dead, but as you say...pulsing. I put her in a cage and in the shade under my marking table. Took her a half hour to recover. Added some attendants. An hour later all was well. I used that queen in a new nuc. Queen is doing well.

Next time you have a fainter, place her in a cage, add a few attendants, and place the cage in the shade. Most of them will recover.
 
#12 ·
Yes fainting queens happen to me every year and it is so disconcerting. This year for the first time i did have one not recover from the faint...as in I killed her. I know she was not squished and was only out of the hive in the shade for a few minutes but she up and died after the marking. So strange.
 
#15 ·
I didnt squeeze her hard but when I pulled the plunger down she wasn't moving. Her thorax was pulsing and it looked like eggs were coming out it.
This is the part that made me think it was not fainting. Never had one faint on me, but I am aware of the phenomenon. This sounds like she was crushed.
 
#16 ·
Wow guys. I am so grateful for all the info. Really putting me at ease... For now untill monday when i go check for eggs. lol. I definitely did not crush her. If i woulda saw yellow then i knew i would have crushed her. like i said she was pulsing and if she would have been crushed her abdomen wall would have been comprimised and unable to pulse. Im pretty good at paying attention to detail. USAF taught me that.
 
#17 ·
I am certainly keeping my fingers crossed for you and hoping for the best. One of the reasons I was adamant about waiting to combine the nuc with the hive. You will know one way or the other in three days.
 
#20 ·
I didnt get time to check today but i did check them yesterday and there were eggs. I didnt see them starting queen cells though. does that mean anything? Does a day early make a difference?
 
#21 ·
Unfortunately, a day does make a difference. It takes 3.5 days for a freshly laid egg to hatch. So by looking on day 3, there could still be unhatched eggs from a now deceased queen. However, if you saw a whole bunch of eggs, especially if they where standing up, it would be a sign the queen was alive and laying.

I had hastily made a nuc in a downpour on the19th. I was not sure where the queen was, so checked it on the 21st, two days later. There were still plenty of eggs in the donor frame and no queen cells started, thought for sure the queen was in the nuc by mistake. Four days later I had capped queen cells and all was good.
 
#22 ·
Ok. I had thought it was 3 day not 3.5 so i can see where that would make a difference. I will check them tomorrow after work. Unfortunatly thats 5pm for me but this hive is always really nice so hopefully they don't change into gremlins after 2pm. lol. I will make a post on what I find after that.
 
#26 ·
A couple of weeks ago I marked a Queen and when I went to release her I tapped the marking cage about two times and smashed her. I threw a mad fit and came back to the hive and pushed her off the frame into the hive and closed it up.
Made plans to take a couple Queen cells out of another hive the next day. Did that and waited a week to see if they emerged and there were eggs all over the place. I said now wait a minute how is this possible. After a while it dawned on me that the Queen survived and sure enough there was a Queen with a green mark. Unbelievable. So I marked the lid of that hive Queen Smash to tract her performance till spring/summer 2020. Taught me a lesson never throw a Queen in the grass because you thought you killed it.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top