Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.
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  1. #1
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    Default Bees need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    "Bees actually require the non-plant proteins of these pollen-borne symbionts to complete their growth and development—which makes them omnivores,"
    https://content.govdelivery.com/acco...OD7jQjlbNVkk3c
    Last edited by msl; 08-20-2019 at 12:22 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Of course, they are omnivores.
    They eat brood like crazy.

    One should see how they jump onto the output of my brood-pressing operations.
    I am unsure what they like more - honey-pressed outputs or dronebrood-pressed outputs.
    Try scraping some drone brood in the hive and watch how they gobble up the juice.
    That immediately makes the omnivores (not to mention cannibalizing the brood in emergencies).

    Now let me read the article.

    Could be similar to the leaf-cutting ants (growing fungus on the leaf pulp; then they eat the fungus).

    MADISON, WISCONSIN, August 20, 2019—Bees only feast on nectar and pollen, right?
    Wrong. Turns out, Nature's famously busy insect isn't strictly vegan, after all....
    Oh gee, and this is coming from my town too.
    I need to call Jan Suszkiw, invite her to my bees and show how the "vegan bees" eat brood.
    Yes, it is going to be a gross demonstration.
    :0)
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Regardless of the labels (omnivores whatever) - this is a good find MSL.

    I am actually more interested in the bee bread discussion in the study - it is useful.
    Another case that shows how so-called "pollen patties" are inferior to the actual bee bread.

    Here is the actual study PDF:
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/do...10.1086/704281

    .........findings reframe the trophic identity of the dominant global pollinator group—bees. This casts bees as omnivorous animals that actively farm microbial “livestock” within their aged pollen provisions.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    In the same way all ruminants, are omnivores.

    I'm sure that OAV I just added has no impact, maybe even acts as pickling.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    In the same way all ruminants, are omnivores.

    I'm sure that OAV I just added has no impact, maybe even acts as pickling.
    Sure.
    No impact.
    Keep on pickling..
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Perhaps we can cultivate strains to make superior patties. The surprise at bees being an omnivore is weird. They should have known that already.
    Splitting a first year hive successfully https://youtu.be/ZfRTreQ-S9c

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Whatever happened to the Purina pollen sub that was made with chicken blood. Everybody got all grossed out but now it seems there may be more to the story.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    I often see bees on blood during deer hunting season. Not much pollen available here in November.
    Hindsight is 20/10, not 20/20...
    After the fact, I always know what didn't work.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    I'm sure that OAV I just added has no impact, maybe even acts as pickling
    Sure.
    No impact.
    Keep on pickling..
    and that's the argument. We have had a lot of fokes say they went TF so they didn't mess with the microbes or some such
    and I have rode some of them hard about proof on what the microbes do (most can't give you anything) and any studys about the impact of (mite) treatments on microbes.
    fair is fair, so when I bumped in to some support on the benefits, and possibly even the need for some microbes I figgered I would pass it on.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    and that's the argument...
    Well, I meant sarcasm.
    Basically, no one know much (even IF they write a book).
    And so IF crap does not belong, just do not put it there.

    First - do no harm.
    In my exact job - "do nothing" is always a valid option.
    It is much, much safer to "do nothing" than to start "fixing stuff" without understanding what the heck you are doing.
    Many times, some young and enthusiastic people would come in and start "improving stuff"...
    Scared bejesus out of me too many times.
    I don't need such improvements.
    Just go and read a book or something; thanks for the "help".
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    GregV,

    Well we all break our own rules.
    I would rate puree of drone as above "doing Nothing".
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    msl,

    My intention was more self mockery than sarcasm. A little bit of "No good dead goes unpunished."

    Have not had the time to chase out the impact of "glutamic acid and phenylalanine"or alternate sources for them.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    A little bit of "No good dead goes unpunished."
    Somebody's Freudian slip is showing.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Somebody's Freudian slip is showing.
    I SWEAR I typed that correctly! It must be the typo Gods.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Bees are omnivores and need the Amino Acids from microbes in bee bead.

    Did a little googling; https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...19562X17301523

    "The highest concentrations of individual amino acids valine, leucine, isoleucine, phenylalanine and proline were obtained from alfalfa bee-pollen; lysine, arginine, cysteine, tryptophan and tyrosine from date palm; methionine, histidine, glycine and alanine from summer squash; threonine, serine and glutamic acid from sunflower"

    "The highest concentrations of individual amino acids valine, leucine, isoleucine, phenylalanine and proline were obtained from alfalfa bee-pollen; "

    "Pollen traps with efficiency of 25% were fitted onto the entrances of the hives."

    So maybe not so much proof.

    Looked for some of the old Keith Jarret debates on best amino acid 5 but failed. Vendors really do not like to throw their % out there.

    For an older randy Oliver comparison of subs; http://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-co...he-pollen-sub/
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

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