Getting comb drawn 'on demand'. - Page 3
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    281

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Hi Joerg I am Curious, what is the "principal" ??
    Okay Grey Goose, you got me: it should have read 'principle' as in: is a rule, standard, or belief of one kind or another

    Cheers
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    507

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biermann View Post
    Okay Grey Goose, you got me: it should have read 'principle' as in: is a rule, standard, or belief of one kind or another

    Cheers
    Ok, Right, but I am still curious, the belief/standard of you not using the excluder is? ___________ fill in the blank.
    Most comb producers use them as a standard, some honey producers use then as a standard, mostly to keep brood out of the honey boxes. I can wrap my mind around that need/desire. so not having one is the open brood nest concept, so what do you perceive that gets you to make not using the excluder your standard? more honey, more sizing of the brood nest? why is it your standard?
    I use them and am trying to understand the positives of why not to.
    GG

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,828

    Default Re: Pre winter planing and experiment idea

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    . So it would appear that two such combs exceed the 6k threshold, and it would be reasonable to expect further drawn combs to include at least a few drone cells -
    I see the 4500 number used in for deep langs as well...

    one sorce puts deep national at 6,360 cells per frame and the deep lang at 6141 cell per frame, another sorce says 6818 per frame for the national, Randy Oliver's writings put a deep lang at 6960... guess you can pick your poison.

    On the practical side, I fill my mini nucs with an 8 oz cup, 600 or so bees.. by your numbers I could shake 2 frames and make 10 ... my experience in the field has been I need to shake more frames then that. Another way to look at it is one frame would give you enough bees for 10+ mite washes I don't see any were near that many when i do mine, maby 4 before fly off ?

    density of coverage is often a bugger,
    so to help, lets go with a common deffention of what a "frame" of bees is http://cestanislaus.ucanr.edu/files/141096.pdf
    75%+ coverage at 4 or more bees per square inch.. so a "frame" would be 1072+ bees

    any way I didn't quite finnish tieing the 2 posts I made together. Were i was going was My 7/3 timing box for grafting keeps the queen on 3 combs and brood is moved to the other side as its capped it has been running all summer packed with bees and is often bearding and allways has one frame for them to draw on... 9 very full frames and no drone all year. I wonder if the QE is playing a roll in, masking some of the workers form others or outherwize changing the trigger threshold

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    7,787

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    Let me guess! How many frames of all drone brood do you have in that colony!
    Where is the like button when you need one!

  6. #45
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    281

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    Hello GG,

    it is not really part of this post, put I will answer you. I don't like to be restricted in my movement, so why should the bees (or queens) be? The only time I had swarms was with the excluder and my thought is that if I restrict the queen to her two brood boxes and they are full (store or brood) she will look for ways to lay and will swarm. My supers are added early and I rather have the queen lay in the supers then run short of bees because the brood boxes are 2/3 full of stores. The frames with brood in the supers are simply moved out from the center (where they are always located), If I find brood in the supers and push them out, they are filled with honey next time I checked (I check every two weeks, Fridays from May on). My mentor now runs about 14,000 hives all without (honey) excluders, as he calls them. Wonder how you would feel if you had to squeeze through a gap that is 2" smaller then your body size to unload your nectar?

    As I said, it is my principle (not principal) now.

    Joerg
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,372

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    Originally Posted by crofter
    Let me guess! How many frames of all drone brood do you have in that colony!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    Where is the like button when you need one!
    As I've already answered that question in the negative - what exactly was the point of your post ?
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    19 days from egg to hatch with foundation less if they are small cell

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,372

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biermann View Post
    Wonder how you would feel if you had to squeeze through a gap that is 2" smaller then your body size to unload your nectar?
    Just sticking my uninvited oar in ....

    There are ways of excluding the queen without creating such a need to squeeze through a tight gap. The Bienenkiste Hive uses a simple flat plate, and I've used a plywood excluder on a couple of occasions - and they work really well.
    There's a picture of one I made at: http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/beek15a.htm - second photograph down.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,372

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand' - MAJOR UPDATE.

    Re: the 3-box, 15-frame stack.
    The day before yesterday I moved the queen into the top box, leaving the brood combs (with eggs/larvae etc) in the bottom box, with two QX's between the three boxes - the idea being to create some Q/C's and so perhaps break any habitual behaviour.

    Yesterday I discovered two supersedure cells had been started, but I was hoping for a little more than these, and so I inserted a sheet of thick plastic under the top box in order to cut-off the queen pheromone completely and thus create a queenless environment below that box.

    Today I discovered that no more Q/C's have been started, and so alarm bells began to ring ...
    Earlier I had said that the pollen frame in the No.1 slot appeared to have been treated differently to the others. Now whilst that was true to begin with, at some point it's pollen was removed and the queen began laying in that comb as well as the others. This remained unknown to me as I had stopped checking that frame, believing it to contain only pollen. Big mistake.
    Having now checked that frame, I discovered it to contain lots of brood, and that there is no longer any stored pollen within it. Indeed, there was no obvious sign of stored pollen to be found anywhere within any of the fifteen frames.

    Although pollen is coming into the hive on flying days (which at the moment is around one day in three, thanks to our 'Summer' weather), it's a no-brainer that it's this lack of stored pollen which is responsible for the low numbers of Q/C's.

    This 'method' of getting combs drawn on bare frames is dependent upon a perceived need for worker-bee brood - and this in turn is dependent upon an adequate supply of pollen - presumably in the form of bee-bread - which they no longer have. Although I could rob other hives of their stored pollen, that would leave them short, and so I've reluctantly decided to halt experimentation this year, and re-commence next year after making provision for this essential requirement of an adequate supply of pollen and/or bee-bread.

    With hindsight, I suppose this should have been anticipated - but it wasn't. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing ...
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,565

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand' - MAJOR UPDATE.

    LJ, I know folks feel differently about this, but I have been feeding pollen patties to keep the brood factories running in high gear. Perhaps you could resume your experiment with a little store bought help?
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Hot Springs, AR, USA
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    If you are removing 19 day old brood at the end of the belt, where are the bees coming from that will sustain the colony?

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,372

    Default Re: Getting comb drawn 'on demand'.

    Quote Originally Posted by unstunghero View Post
    If you are removing 19 day old brood at the end of the belt, where are the bees coming from that will sustain the colony?
    It's always a good idea to read the whole thread . See post #9
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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