Hive condition for queen creation
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Vernon, Louisiana, USA
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    Default Hive condition for queen creation

    I have never tried making my own queens and I'm wondering if it is necessary when using a queen rearing frame that the hive be queenless for the bees to start making the cells into queen cells? My thinking is that they would make them regardless of their queen situation based on the cells orientation. Thankful for any help.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
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    Default Re: Hive condition for queen creation

    In a double box colony the bees in the top box, if they are above a queen excluder, will start and finish graft queen cells. This is done under the supersedure impulse because when an area of the hive is not well provisioned with the queen's pheromones the bees think she is failing. Only give 12 cells or less for the bees to raise so they are all well fed.

    Giving queen cells to a colony without restricting the queen usually fails because the bees will remove the larvae from the cells.
    42 + years - 24 colonies - IPM disciple - Naturally Skeptic

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA USA
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    72

    Default Re: Hive condition for queen creation

    Thanks AR. So, what is the advantage of Cloake boards and queenless cell builders? Just bigger queen cells? An aside, how should you reunite queenless bees with the colony (for example after using a Cloake board or cell builder)?

  5. #4
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    Jan 2017
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    Vernon, Louisiana, USA
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    Default

    Thank you AR

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
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    1,442

    Default Re: Hive condition for queen creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Andhors View Post
    Thanks AR. So, what is the advantage of Cloake boards and queenless cell builders? Just bigger queen cells? An aside, how should you reunite queenless bees with the colony (for example after using a Cloake board or cell builder)?
    A Cloake Board is normally used to produce a large number of queen cells. It does two things - it converts the area above a queenright hive into a queenless environment for a short time - normally 24-36 hrs - in order to get queen-cells started, after which time the hive is returned to queenright status in order for them to be finished under queenright conditions. Thus there is no need to 'reunite' bees after the process is completed - 'cause they've never left the hive.

    The other thing the Cloake Board does is to relocate the returning foragers up into the temporarily queenless area, thus causing a congestion of bees there. This is known to help stimulate the starting of queen cells under difficult conditions. It's an ingenious method of raising queens using a queenright hive.

    You asked why do people use queenless hives for queen-rearing ? Because no matter how crowded and congested a queenless hive becomes, without a queen it will never swarm.
    When I've finished with a queenless cell-builder for the season, I simply leave a couple of q/cells in it to run to completion. There's no case for uniting them - they've developed into large powerful colonies - all they need is a mated queen to make them complete.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA USA
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    72

    Default Re: Hive condition for queen creation

    Hypothetically, would there be a problem reuniting the colony? Would the queenless bees attack the queen or eggs? I did an extended Cloake board.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,764

    Default Re: Hive condition for queen creation

    If you have the cells separated from the queen by a box or so you can usually get them to start some cells while queenright but not as many as if they are queenless.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

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