caging queens
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Thread: caging queens

  1. #1
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    Default caging queens

    As i just killed my 4th queen this year, perhaps its time to ask for advice. I was putting this one in a jzbz cage. Had marshmallow in the tube. had rubber gloves on for dexterity. picked her up by the wings like i am supposed to. put her head in the cage and she started walking in so let go of her wings and she walked in. closed the hole making sure she was not anywhere near it. put the cage down to close the hive. less then ten minutes later picked up cage and she's dead. are they allergic to marshmallow? did she suffocate herself in it? Here is a picture of the carcass. Previous deaths i was clearly at fault but this one seemed flawless. heart attack?

    IMG_5021.jpg
    Terrence

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Did you give her any attendants? Also if she was set down in the sun that can quickly cook a queen

  4. #3
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Williamson View Post
    Did you give her any attendants? Also if she was set down in the sun that can quickly cook a queen
    No attendants as she was going to be released in an hour. she was set down literally for 5-7 minutes.
    Terrence

  5. #4
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Was she in the sun or the shade during that time?

  6. #5
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    Default Re: caging queens

    sun but i've had a frame laying on top of a hive watching the queen in the sun for 20 minutes before without issue. a plastic cage shouldn't have cooked her in that short of a time
    Terrence

  7. #6
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Terrence, my guess would also be you cooked her. There was a discussion about this last year too. Takes less than 5 minutes on the top of a hive on a sunny day. Much safer to have the queen in your pocket, but you might want to ask Kamon (Tennessees Bees) about that!
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: caging queens

    I'll have to search it out. This baffles me. It was 85 here and i took her out of a 95 degree hive. Do they overheat themselves in the cage as opposed to running around on a frame on top of a hive?
    Terrence

  9. #8
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    Default Re: caging queens

    The tops of the hives can get quite hot on an 85 day. And if your queen was dark colored, solar radiation alone could heat her up well over 100. The hive and brood nest area may be in the 90s, but it is also dark.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Cooked.
    Why risk it?
    Find shade - it is everywhere.

    I would not use gloves either IF working the queen.
    Bare hands best.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Cooked.
    Why risk it?
    Find shade - it is everywhere.

    I would not use gloves either IF working the queen.
    Bare hands best.
    now that i know that i will. I always use gloves. But these are surgical so like nothing. I still act like i got shot every time i get stung. Not much swelling but i have not desensitized to the sting yet.
    Terrence

  12. #11
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    sun but i've had a frame laying on top of a hive watching the queen in the sun for 20 minutes before without issue. a plastic cage shouldn't have cooked her in that short of a time
    The frame has pretty darn high thermal mass (compared to a single bee) and creates the temperature/humidity the same as in hive for few minutes around itself.
    It warms OR cools the bees on it - for few minutes, but that is enough.

    A single bee in a cage in the sun, on the other hand, unable to thermo-regulate itself alone.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    No attendants as she was going to be released in an hour. she was set down literally for 5-7 minutes.
    Curious here - what is the logistical point of caging a queen for an hour?
    Alone in a cage for an hour?
    Cross-hive transfer?
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    now that i know that i will. I always use gloves. But these are surgical so like nothing. I still act like i got shot every time i get stung. Not much swelling but i have not desensitized to the sting yet.
    OK, I can see the point for the thin gloves.
    Depending on the case (say, defensive bees), it actually a good idea to wear nitrile gloves to reduce a chance of accidental jerking while holding a queen.
    Need to have a steady hold.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: caging queens

    virgin or mated?

  16. #15
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    I'll have to search it out. This baffles me. It was 85 here and i took her out of a 95 degree hive. Do they overheat themselves in the cage as opposed to running around on a frame on top of a hive?
    Im guessing she died from a combination of heat and lack of food/water. I would imagine that alone in a cage can get quite a bit hotter than on the frame. Plus on the frame she has access to food via attendants which she did not get in the cage. Many summers ago I accidentally left a queen in a marking tube in full shade on the ground for a week below a nuc. Enough bees joined her on the ground to keep her alive!

  17. #16
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Curious here - what is the logistical point of caging a queen for an hour?
    Alone in a cage for an hour?
    Cross-hive transfer?
    Sold her to someone local. Literally ten minutes away. Mated
    Terrence

  18. #17
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    Sold her to someone local. Literally ten minutes away. Mated
    If sold - must have attendants.
    You don't know how long she will be in the cage, in fact.
    Should not care either.
    10 minutes away or 24 hour shipping is irrelevant and not an excuse.
    I would not sell otherwise - you are risking someone else's purchased queen.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    If sold - must have attendants.
    You don't know how long she will be in the cage, in fact.
    Should not care either.
    10 minutes away or 24 hour shipping is irrelevant and not an excuse.
    I would not sell otherwise - you are risking someone else's purchased queen.
    Since i was driving it over and installing it i didnt feel it was a risk.
    Terrence

  20. #19
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    Since i was driving it over and installing it i didnt feel it was a risk.
    Plugging few attendants in is a very cheap insurance.
    Just another day - 10 minute drive took 30+ minutes.
    Anyway, this is your business and you run it your way.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  21. #20
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    Default Re: caging queens

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    Since i was driving it over and installing it i didnt feel it was a risk.
    I wouldn't have put attendants in her cage for that. I often run unattended queens from my mating yards to my outyards that routinely take me 15 - 30 minutes. I have not had problems. I turn the AC off in my truck and crack the windows. No attendants. No feed. They usually ride in my cup holders.

    Not saying that attendants wouldn't help a distressed queen. But I don't think the lack of attendants was the sole cause of death for a mated queen left in a cage for <10 minutes.

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