best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Pitt, NC, USA
    Posts
    783

    Question best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    I had lots of good feedback to my earlier post re: eliminating moths/maggots. That said ....

    How do I treat the frames? I have manually-operated sprayers, so .... just spray the solution on each side of the frames, let them dry outside for a day, then store? Or .... what other options are there?

    Thx for any assist; it's my 1st time in using this Tx.

    Mitch

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,068

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    bt-k? wrong bt for wax moths, you need bt-aizawai.

    i mix it up in a bottle sprayer and mist the comb and woodenware liberally with it.

    i let them air dry for 24 hours and then shake out any excess.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Cecil County, MD
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    I use BT Aizawai strain, and add 4 teaspoons per gallon of water. I spray it on using a small pump sprayer. I just sprayed about 150 medium and 30 deep frames with about a quart and a half.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,390

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    SP, It is my understanding that both Bt strains will work equally as well. Bt.a is the one approved for use as a wax moth preventative in bee hives. Bt.k is not "approved" and therefore cannot be recommended. Maybe I misunderstood, maybe not?
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    5,530

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Quote Originally Posted by mlanden View Post
    How do I treat the frames?
    If you have the space, this is what I do.
    On a nice warm sunny day I'll lay out the frames in a row on the grass, then lay out a couple more rows with space between the rows to walk through. Walk down the rows with a garden sprayer dedicated for BTA and spray all the frames.
    In about an hour the liquid will be dried up and all of the frames will be flipped over and the other side treated.
    When the reverse side is dried out they are packed up in the boxes for storage.
    To everything there is a season....

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,068

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    SP, It is my understanding that both Bt strains will work equally as well. Bt.a is the one approved for use as a wax moth preventative in bee hives. Bt.k is not "approved" and therefore cannot be recommended. Maybe I misunderstood, maybe not?
    i'm not sure if this is right or not:


    "Some other strains of Bacillus thuringiensis (BtK) are toxic to bees and humans, so beekeepers must resist the temptation of using other BT products. Do not use the Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies kurstaki , or “BtK”, use the subspecies aizawai,."

    from:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...lIWDp3FlzdaNlf
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Powhatan, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    352

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    SP
    Your Google reference is an excellent compilation of info about wax moth control but the info about Btk at the end is incorrect. It is labeled with the same warnings as Bta.
    Both contain the standard boiler plate language about human hazards.
    Both are intended for moth larvae.
    Neither is harmful to the bees, the bacteria only infects the moth larvae.

    Neither is labeled for use on wax moths or comb so the use of either strain of Bt is an OFF LABEL USE.
    Dipel (Btk) is also available as a dust.
    Does not require waiting for the comb to dry after application.

    BUT MAKE SURE YOU GET THE CORRECT PRODUCT ---- NOT Sevin or some other dustable pesticide.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,068

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    thank you for the correction john.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Wise county,Texas
    Posts
    271

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    i'm not sure if this is right or not:


    "Some other strains of Bacillus thuringiensis (BtK) are toxic to bees and humans, so beekeepers must resist the temptation of using other BT products. Do not use the Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies kurstaki , or “BtK”, use the subspecies aizawai,."

    from:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...lIWDp3FlzdaNlf
    I think that is a misstatement quoted, BT according to much research, are "bug larva" specific. Truth in that statement is B.t.a is what you want specifically for Wax moth larva. Reduced longevity has been observed in Bees overdosing with B.t.v

    "Effects on Other Animals (Nontarget species)

    "Applications of labeled rates of formulated B.t. have not been toxic to beneficial or predator insects (1). Treatment of honeycombs with B.t. var. aizawai will not have a detrimental effect upon bees, nor on the honey produced (4). Normal exposure rates do not cause harm to honey bees. Very high concentrations (108 spores/ ml sucrose syrup) of B.t. var. tenebrionis, which is used against beetles such as the Colorado potato beetle, reduced longevity of honey bee adults but did not cause disease (17). "

    "Bacillus thuringiensis (B.t.) is a naturally-occurring soil bacterium that produces poisons which cause disease in insects. A number of insecticides are based on these toxins (8). B.t. is considered ideal for pest management because of its specificity to pests and because of its lack of toxicity to humans or the natural enemies of many crop pests (14). There are different strains of B.t., each with specific toxicity to particular types of insects: B.t. aizawai (B.t.a.) is used against wax moth larvae in honeycombs; B.t. israelensis (B.t.i.) is effective against mosquitoes, blackflies and some midges; B.t. kurstaki (B.t.k.) controls various types of lepidopterous insects, including the gypsy moth and cabbage looper. A new strain, B.t. san diego, has been found to be effective against certain beetle species and the boll weevil. In order to be effective, B.t. must be eaten by insects in the immature, feeding stage of development referred to as larvae. It is ineffective against adult insects. Monitoring the target insect population before application insures that insects are in the vulnerable larval stage (9). More than 150 insects, mostly lepidopterous larvae, are known to be susceptible in some way to B.t. (5)""

    Great read where other online sources quote from
    http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...an/bt-ext.html

    Shorter but uses the same info in condensed fashion.
    http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/BTgen.pdf
    “Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic”

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    7,781

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Mix some BT A in volume of water you will use that day spraying combs. As the wet frames come out of the extractor, I spray both sides and fill the super which is then stored. Deadouts or other such protein heavy frames are sprayed liberally on both sides and stored in their boxes protected from mice and vermin. I just don't think it is hard, technical or mysterious. Possibly my nonchalance is abetted by my equipment being refrigerated for about eight months of the year and low enough humidity that frames do not mold stored inside unless you just stack a dead out and adhering bees.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Chico, California
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    If you have the space, this is what I do.
    On a nice warm sunny day I'll lay out the frames in a row on the grass, then lay out a couple more rows with space between the rows to walk through. Walk down the rows with a garden sprayer dedicated for BTA and spray all the frames.
    In about an hour the liquid will be dried up and all of the frames will be flipped over and the other side treated.
    When the reverse side is dried out they are packed up in the boxes for storage.
    What a great idea!! My hand gets a little fatigued pumping that spray bottle.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Dayton, TN
    Posts
    171

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Where does one get BT-A in liquid form? I can only find BT-K, or I can't definitively determine that it is BT-A.
    Last edited by BroncoVol74; 07-24-2019 at 07:51 AM.
    Andy

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    7,781

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    One does not get it in liquid form. It is readily dissolvable in water at time of use. Wetting it speeds degradation/growth of the spores. The spores need to wake up on ingestion by the moth larvae.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Lumpkin County, GA
    Posts
    806

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    I found this Bt https://www.7springsfarm.com/xentari...e-bt-1-lb-bag/. I plan on mixing this 3 tsps per gallon when I am storing my frames.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,390

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Thanks for posting that link. Looks like just what the doctor ordered.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Mercer county pa. Usa
    Posts
    148

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Just found out a company called "Do your own.com" will start carrying Xentari-Aizawai. Should be on the web site in a few days. 32.79 for one pound bag with free shipping. They will also carry a five pound bag. They also carry a lot of other pest and yard products that you can't get at the local stores.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,121

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    According to the Valent BioSciences website, both Xentari (Bt-A) and DiPel (Bt-k) are labeled for use in killing Lepidoptera. Xentari It was created/brought to market after DiPel (Bt-k). It is considered a stronger version for killing certain target pests. Both products create 4-5 different toxins and one spore that kill the pests. I have used Bt-k for the last 2 years with no issues. I chose to try Bt-k because it was a whole lot cheaper than Bt-a and was available in much smaller quantities. A pound of either would last me 10 years but I don't believe either is viable for that long.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,121

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    I absolutely love finding information that seems totally contradictory to real life. An article about Bt located on the Oregon State University web page states: "However, the aizawai strain is highly toxic to honeybees. Other strains have minimal toxicity to honeybees." Since beekeepers have been using it with little or no issues, I have to wonder how accurate this statement is. The article can be found here: http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/btgen.html. It is certainly possible that this is correct but I doubt it. Since beekeepers spray the frames and then store them for months before using them, any toxicity will have disappeared after the long storage. Also, the manufacturers information disputes this claim.

    Mike Gillmore, thank you for the great idea on how you spray the frames. That is much easier than what I have been doing. One thing to note about using BT, once it has been applied, most of the literature states that the product is only active for a very short period of time. Thus, timing of the application is vitally important. You cannot spray the frames in June and expect it to protect the frames in September. The worms need to be actively feeding at the time you spray.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,390

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Little test run. One of my failed nucs died out and within days had a pretty bad case of wax moths on three of the frames. Two went into the freezer and one got sprayed with Thuricide, Bt.k, mixed 1 tsp. per quart. The larvae on the sprayed frame were all dead 24 hrs. later when I checked. This may have not been the best test as the one frame was in open air in my bee room and not inside a hive body, but it is encouraging.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    5,530

    Default Re: best way to apply Bt-k to frames (that could have moth-maggot potential)?

    Quote Originally Posted by dudelt View Post
    One thing to note about using BT, once it has been applied, most of the literature states that the product is only active for a very short period of time.
    Another point which might be directly related to that is UV rays from the sun can break down the effectiveness of the BTA fairly rapidly. After treating I stack up my boxes and cover them so they are no longer exposed to any sunlight while in storage. I've had great results not experiencing any re-infestation, for extended periods of time.

    When this product is used in the field for non beekeeping applications the effectiveness deteriorates relatively quickly due to sunlight exposure and rain washout.
    To everything there is a season....

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •