No new brood
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Thread: No new brood

  1. #1
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    Default No new brood

    I have a Nuc with a Russian hybred queen. This is my first time with a Russian queen. I just looked into the hive and I found her, and there is eggs and larva, but no new capped brood. There is emerging capped brood from a previous cycle, but it looks like she took a break from laying for maybe a week, OR something else is happening that I don't understand.

    I have read that Russians queen operate a little differently than Italian's but would this be a normal behavior for a Russian queen?

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: No new brood

    This is normal for our area of the country at this time of year, especially if you are not feeding them. I have commented about this recently in other posts. You want to make sure the larvae are making it to capped stage, so mark and date a frame of eggs and pull it in 9 days to see. Pollen is a little scarce right now too.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    This is normal for our area of the country at this time of year, especially if you are not feeding them. I have commented about this recently in other posts. You want to make sure the larvae are making it to capped stage, so mark and date a frame of eggs and pull it in 9 days to see. Pollen is a little scarce right now too.
    I am feeding. I don't see the workers pulling larva out, so I thought it was normal. If I had to guess, I would think I should see capping in a few days, so we will see.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    This is normal for our area of the country at this time of year, especially if you are not feeding them. I have commented about this recently in other posts. You want to make sure the larvae are making it to capped stage, so mark and date a frame of eggs and pull it in 9 days to see. Pollen is a little scarce right now too.
    I did exactly what you suggested and no capped brood. I have Another Russian hive about 7 miles away. It is not having this problem. Do you think its a location issue?

    Edit: Interestingly, I have a second Russian hive about 3 feet away and it has capped brood. I wouldn't describe it as jammed with brood, it has - frames about 1/3 full each. I think I am going to move them tomorrow and see what happens
    Last edited by WRLCPA; 07-25-2019 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Additional information

  6. #5
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Try to get some pictures of the frames and developing larvae. Eggs and larvae on the 17th but they do not make it to capped stage? Could be a serious problem.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Try to get some pictures of the frames and developing larvae. Eggs and larvae on the 17th but they do not make it to capped stage? Could be a serious problem.
    Would you suggest NOT putting them in with my other hives that are all doing well?

    I think I will try something different. I am going to cage the queen for a week. I might even take her out of the hive to make the hive hopelessly queenless. Then reintroduce her. Thoughts?
    Last edited by WRLCPA; 07-25-2019 at 01:36 PM.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Without any other information to go on, prudence would dictate treating this hive as if it has EFB and avoid any possible cross contamination with your other bees and hives. Pictures will help diagnose the actual problem, but failure of the brood to live long enough to be capped is a disturbing problem and you have already ruled out lack of food. Maybe Squarepeg will jump in and help. At a minimum, I would try to find an EFB test kit, about $14, and perform the test.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Without any other information to go on, prudence would dictate treating this hive as if it has EFB and avoid any possible cross contamination with your other bees and hives. Pictures will help diagnose the actual problem, but failure of the brood to live long enough to be capped is a disturbing problem and you have already ruled out lack of food. Maybe Squarepeg will jump in and help. At a minimum, I would try to find an EFB test kit, about $14, and perform the test.
    I understand lack of information. I don't think it's AFB, it doesn't smell and brood is not slimy, but I have never seen AFB before. I will spend the money!

    As I was considering what to do with these hives, I recalled that these two Nuc's received 5 frames each from a laying worker hive, just the frames, no bee's. since they are acting like bee's act when they have a laying worker hive, could this be a contributing factor?

  10. #9
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    Default Re: No new brood

    EFB and AFB are distinctly different diseases and manifest themselves differently. My concern is for EFB based on the reported data. Laying worker does not explain a lack of capped brood when you have eggs being produced. You would have capped drones cells at a minimum. Look to see if you can spot any yellow or twisted larvae in the cells. I am no expert at brood diseases, but I do know how to tell if something is amiss. Many brood problems are stress related and often work themselves out once the stress is removed. That is why feeding is usually the first step for me.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    EFB and AFB are distinctly different diseases and manifest themselves differently. My concern is for EFB based on the reported data. Laying worker does not explain a lack of capped brood when you have eggs being produced. You would have capped drones cells at a minimum. Look to see if you can spot any yellow or twisted larvae in the cells. I am no expert at brood diseases, but I do know how to tell if something is amiss. Many brood problems are stress related and often work themselves out once the stress is removed. That is why feeding is usually the first step for me.
    Maybe the first step is for the bee keeper to stay out. I feel like I am checking it every day. I bought a AFB test kit. I will purchase a EFB one tomorrow and add it to the order

  12. #11
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Whatever the problem it is not AFB. Not even any point using your AFB test kit. It could very well be EFB, and as per previous advice, recommend testing for EFB with a test kit. You must test from larva that show what appears to be EFB symptoms, not a healthy larva.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  13. #12
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Whatever the problem it is not AFB. Not even any point using your AFB test kit. It could very well be EFB, and as per previous advice, recommend testing for EFB with a test kit. You must test from larva that show what appears to be EFB symptoms, not a healthy larva.
    OK, will do and advise! I just didn't read very well. Previous advice was well taken, again bee keeper error!

  14. #13
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by WRLCPA View Post
    OK, will do and advise! I just didn't read very well. Previous advice was well taken, again bee keeper error!
    20190726_130848.jpg
    20190726_131102.jpg
    20190726_131139.jpg
    20190726_131300.jpg

    OK, Pic's of the exact frame that was labeled on 7/17

  15. #14
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Some of those caps look all kinds of ugly.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Agreed. I said it's not AFB cos the OP said there are no slimy larvae. But some of those caps look a bit suspect. All the same, I couldn't see any obvious AFB in open cells.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  17. #16
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    Default Re: No new brood

    No background so I do not know. Looks like, back in my more foolish days I would give a split a generous amount of capped brood to give them a boost. Killed a lot of brood that they would be very slow to clean out, really cut down on the laying but never totally stopped.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    No background so I do not know. Looks like, back in my more foolish days I would give a split a generous amount of capped brood to give them a boost. Killed a lot of brood that they would be very slow to clean out, really cut down on the laying but never totally stopped.
    I'm sorry, I am giving as much information that I can and think is appropriate. I have never seen AFB, so I don't know what to look for. As I type this, I am doing the Holst Milk test. The larva I dug out were nice and white. I took about 10 of them. I will know in 20-30 Min if there is a reaction.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: No new brood

    Quote Originally Posted by WRLCPA View Post
    I'm sorry, I am giving as much information that I can and think is appropriate. I have never seen AFB, so I don't know what to look for. As I type this, I am doing the Holst Milk test. The larva I dug out were nice and white. I took about 10 of them. I will know in 20-30 Min if there is a reaction.
    OK, 1/2 hour gone by and no change is the color of the test milk from the control milk. No AFB. So the search for answers continues I suppose

  20. #19
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    Default Re: No new brood

    No criticism intended, you've given all the internet can convey!
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  21. #20
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    Default Re: No new brood

    American Foulbrood was never a contender. European Foulbrood may be. I am confused as to why you keep going back to AFB. Do you have a picture of any larvae? Any idea on which day in their development they disappear?
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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