Thymol effects on queen rearing?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default Thymol effects on queen rearing?

    Hi all,
    I have heard some things about effects of thymol on the queen, such as making her stop laying for a few days. I'm curious if there are any concerns using it on a split that is raising their own queen? Would thymol hinder any of their queen rearing activities - making queen cups, after queen cups are capped, etc.?

    My friend's hive this was split from had an alcohol wash count of 6 and hadn't yet been treated, so I want to treat ASAP, but will hold off if it will screw them up making their queen. Given that she will need time to hatch and start laying, there will be a short break in the brood cycle that should help with mites also.

    Thanks!
    MiKayla

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Covington County, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,507

    Default Re: Thymol effects on queen rearing?

    MiKayla:

    I would be very reluctant to treat a new split that was attempting to raise its own queen with Thymol. Especially if I was getting temps into the 80s. I have used Thymol (Apiguard) and found that it can be very stressful to even a healthy colony. The higher the temps, the higher the stress. While I found it to be very effective in reducing mite load, I had a few colonies abscond. However, do consider that I live in Alabama and my temps are not very agreeable with Thymol and Formic treatments. CO would have to be a more appropriate place for Thymol treatment. Again, I had a very effective mite kill from using it, but found it to be too risky in my climate.

    I am not sure about the size of your split, but I did clip the excerpt below from the Apiguard FAQ page on their website. If you decide to treat with Thymol you may want to consider a 1/2 dose if you have a small or struggling colony.


    14. Q: I want to treat nucs with Apiguard. What dose should I use?
    A: To treat nuclei or small/weak colonies treat with only 1 x 25g Apiguard – no more than this. For
    small nuclei reduce this to half again (1 x 12.5g approx). Small (e.g. less than 5 frames) or weak
    colonies may not tolerate a 50g Apiguard dose and brood may be removed by the workers. If
    brood removal is seen, remove the product from the colony.


    Good luck.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: Thymol effects on queen rearing?

    Quote Originally Posted by psm1212 View Post
    MiKayla:

    I would be very reluctant to treat a new split that was attempting to raise its own queen with Thymol. Especially if I was getting temps into the 80s. I have used Thymol (Apiguard) and found that it can be very stressful to even a healthy colony. The higher the temps, the higher the stress. While I found it to be very effective in reducing mite load, I had a few colonies abscond. However, do consider that I live in Alabama and my temps are not very agreeable with Thymol and Formic treatments. CO would have to be a more appropriate place for Thymol treatment. Again, I had a very effective mite kill from using it, but found it to be too risky in my climate.

    I am not sure about the size of your split, but I did clip the excerpt below from the Apiguard FAQ page on their website. If you decide to treat with Thymol you may want to consider a 1/2 dose if you have a small or struggling colony.


    14. Q: I want to treat nucs with Apiguard. What dose should I use?
    A: To treat nuclei or small/weak colonies treat with only 1 x 25g Apiguard – no more than this. For
    small nuclei reduce this to half again (1 x 12.5g approx). Small (e.g. less than 5 frames) or weak
    colonies may not tolerate a 50g Apiguard dose and brood may be removed by the workers. If
    brood removal is seen, remove the product from the colony.


    Good luck.
    Great info - thank you! Our temps are in the mid 90s right now, so it is definitely hot (though probably a lot dryer than your climate). What do you prefer to use if you have to treat during hot temps?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Covington County, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,507

    Default Re: Thymol effects on queen rearing?

    MiKayla:

    I wanted to add that, if you have split and are expecting the split colony to raise its own queen, you will have no capped brood in your hive after 21 days after the day of the split. That means that a single, effective treatment of Oxalic Acid through vaporization (sublimation) should result in a mite kill in a broodless colony of well over 90%. This OAV treatment does not seem to be a significant stresser on bees and does not seem to impact queen rearing to any significant degree. In any event, much less stress than a tub of Thymol. If you have a mentor, friend, club member, etc. that could treat your hive with OAV 21 days post-split, my opinion is that this would be your best treatment option given your current circumstances.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: Thymol effects on queen rearing?

    Quote Originally Posted by psm1212 View Post
    MiKayla:

    I wanted to add that, if you have split and are expecting the split colony to raise its own queen, you will have no capped brood in your hive after 21 days after the day of the split. That means that a single, effective treatment of Oxalic Acid through vaporization (sublimation) should result in a mite kill in a broodless colony of well over 90%. This OAV treatment does not seem to be a significant stresser on bees and does not seem to impact queen rearing to any significant degree. In any event, much less stress than a tub of Thymol. If you have a mentor, friend, club member, etc. that could treat your hive with OAV 21 days post-split, my opinion is that this would be your best treatment option given your current circumstances.
    Of course! Great idea!

  7. #6

    Default Re: Thymol effects on queen rearing?

    Quote Originally Posted by psm1212 View Post
    I would be very reluctant to treat a new split that was attempting to raise its own queen with Thymol.
    Agreed!
    If you feel the need to treat for mites at this point, I would recommend Apivar.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

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