Mating NUC pheromone strip
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  1. #1
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    Default Mating NUC pheromone strip

    I'm a little confused. I built and am stocking mating nucs for cells i have in the cooker. I ordered "temp queen" from mannlake. Each envelope contains two vials. I assume one is enough for each 2 frame nuc. Should i open the vial? put a pinhole in it? pour it in the nuc? I havent' found any specifics like this.
    Terrence

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    I think you have the wrong product. The vials are NOT "temp queen". "Temp Queen" or "PseudoQueen" comes in the form of short tubes of plastic. There are no vials. I cut the pieces of pseudoqueen into quarters and use a quarter of one per mating nuc or per bait hive.

    https://www.mannlakeltd.com/pseudo-queen-50-pack
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    I think you have the wrong product. The vials are NOT "temp queen". "Temp Queen" or "PseudoQueen" comes in the form of short tubes of plastic. There are no vials. I cut the pieces of pseudoqueen into quarters and use a quarter of one per mating nuc or per bait hive.

    https://www.mannlakeltd.com/pseudo-queen-50-pack
    ****......looks like i ordered and got swarm lure. Is this stuff usable for mating nuc or different phermone?
    Terrence

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    >looks like i ordered and got swarm lure. Is this stuff usable for mating nuc or different phermone?

    The swarm lure will not work for mating nucs. You need the queen pheromones. Swarm lure is Nasonov. Queen pheromones are QMP.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Finally got the right product. Follow up question. When setting up a mating nuc I add the quarter strip and bees. I add the cell. Do i have to take the strip out when it hatches?
    Terrence

  7. #6
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    Default

    You can leave it in.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Michael:

    How long do you think the 1/4 strip of temp queen is effective in a mating nuc?

  9. #8
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    Default

    I would use it for one season. Next year I would start with fresh pheromones.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    These strips i understand in a nuc to retain the bees while the cell is hatching. But why wouldn't the bees in said nuc tear down the cell if they think they are already queenright? Also along the same lines when i take out the mated queen does the strip stop the bees from building their own queen cells on the larvae just laid?
    Terrence

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    These strips i understand in a nuc to retain the bees while the cell is hatching. But why wouldn't the bees in said nuc tear down the cell if they think they are already queenright? Also along the same lines when i take out the mated queen does the strip stop the bees from building their own queen cells on the larvae just laid?
    Terrence: I want to take a stab at this, but I hope Michael will correct me where I get it wrong. The worker bees don't tear down queen cells, other queens do. Since there is only the QMP in the hive and no queen, the queen cells go unmolested. To the second question, yes, the presence of the QMP does inhibit the worker's instinct to create queen cells.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    I had a small hive with no queen. They built queen cells and stayed in the box. So, what is the QMP for? Thanks.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Quote Originally Posted by Andhors View Post
    I had a small hive with no queen. They built queen cells and stayed in the box. So, what is the QMP for? Thanks.
    Kaizen is raising queens in mating nucs. So he is transferring capped queen cells from his incubator into these nucs. These mating nucs DO NOT actually make queen cells. In fact, you want them to not make queen cells and also to not develop laying workers between periods of time when it is not raising and breeding a queen.

    Inserting the artificial QMP suppresses the workers from making queens in the mating nuc (perhaps with laid eggs of the last queen mated) and from producing laying workers.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Thank you.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Quote Originally Posted by psm1212 View Post
    Terrence: I want to take a stab at this, but I hope Michael will correct me where I get it wrong. The worker bees don't tear down queen cells, other queens do. Since there is only the QMP in the hive and no queen, the queen cells go unmolested. To the second question, yes, the presence of the QMP does inhibit the worker's instinct to create queen cells.
    from my experience the queen kills the cell and the workers tear it down. i figured they could also do the same whenever they wanted. good to know. Thanks for the feedback.
    Terrence

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    from my experience the queen kills the cell and the workers tear it down. i figured they could also do the same whenever they wanted. good to know. Thanks for the feedback.
    Right. You said it much better. Queen stings the unemerged queens. Workers tear down the cells. I have always assumed the workers actions were just cleaning up and possibly harvesting the royal jelly. I did not believe that workers would do that to a viable queen cell. But I would like to hear about it if they would, or if someone knows this to not be the case.

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    Quote Originally Posted by psm1212 View Post
    Right. You said it much better. Queen stings the unemerged queens. Workers tear down the cells. I have always assumed the workers actions were just cleaning up and possibly harvesting the royal jelly. I did not believe that workers would do that to a viable queen cell. But I would like to hear about it if they would, or if someone knows this to not be the case.
    My experience is from doing queens last year. I had a hive that i thought was queenless but had a second queen. They started my grafts and built them up half way but then when she started laying they tore them all down 2 days later. I doubt she had to sting them as they were still just larvae. So i don't know why with this strip why they would not do the same thing. I think its just that they might ignore capped cells for some reason vs in the building process.
    Terrence

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    I just found this study that Dewey Caron did in 1979. I am not sure that this fully answers our question. Would like to get access to the full article, but can't seem to figure out how to get it. I was able to clip the Abstract:

    Abstract
    Queen cells placed in the brood rearing area of queenright Apis mellifera L. colonies are destroyed by worker bees in response to holes cut in the cells by queens. Normal queen cells, cells with occupants removed, cells with workers or drones substituted, and artificial pieces of wax made to resemble cells were destroyed. Queen cells with older queen pupae were destroyed more frequently than recently capped cells. Queen cells with holes were consistently repaired in colonies with caged queens, except when holes were large or high in position. Queen cells with holes were rapidly destroyed in queenright colonies.


    Destruction of queen cells placed in queenright Apis mellifera colonies
    Title Destruction of queen cells placed in queenright Apis mellifera colonies
    Publication Type Journal Article
    Year of Publication 1979
    Authors Caron D.M., and Greve C.W.
    Citation Key 128
    Journal Ann. Ent. Soc. Amer.
    Volume 72
    Pagination 405-407

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    I got this great picture of a virgin chewing into a QC in one of my hives last spring. I think I posted it on beesource after I took it last year.

    queen killing cell.jpg

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Mating NUC pheromone strip

    That is interesting. From that abstract i take it that the queen does not have to sting if its in a larvae stage or something earlier then a survivable age. Thanks for the info.
    Terrence

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