Rotating Treatments Question
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    229

    Default Rotating Treatments Question

    How do people rotate treatments from year to year? Some products contain similar chemicals so would you avoid two or more years of similar chemicals even if different products? Or do people try and change the chemicals used each year to try and slow mite resistance: example - using Apiguard one year and Apivar the next. Am curious to see how other beeks handle this.

    Lastly - what are peoples experience with Hop Guard II?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Turnbow Hollow, Tennessee
    Posts
    444

    Default Re: Rotating Treatments Question

    Chemical treatments have become very expensive for me the past few years. I changed over to the thermal treatment using the Mighty Mite Killer and haven't looked back. I do keep OA and Apivar for emergency treatment for occasions when I am too far behind in my thermal treatments to hold hives over until I can treat them with the Mighty Mite Killer but for the most part rarely use them. Using the Mighty Mite Killer I am able to treat with the honey supers on or off. Makes no difference. Cost per treatment compared to using Apivar saves me about $1500 per treatment. I have tried just about all of the chemical treatments including Hop Guard (which was a pain in the neck to use with the original Hop Guard). I have had the best results and Winter survival rates using the Mighty Mite Killer.

    You might try looking at others using it here:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/275791919813444/

    https://www.beehivethermalindustries.com/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,748

    Default Re: Rotating Treatments Question

    The Varroa have been resistant to both CheckMite and Apistan since about 2000. No point in rotating through a chemical that no longer works...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    229

    Default Re: Rotating Treatments Question

    I assume chemical resistance is a cumulative genetic trait and is unlikely to disappear any time soon through natural mutations. Still see both of these products for sale on many websites with little to no warning as to their reduced efficacy. Cavaet Emptor and all of that I suppose.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,148

    Default Re: Rotating Treatments Question

    I rotate OAV, formic acid (MAQS or Formic Pro) and Apivar. None of the three work the same way so I feel it is a good way to rotate. As far as Hopguard II goes, I am still mad at them for bad instructions with the original product and have never gone back. The original Hopguard stated you could do 3 treatments a year. so I did one treatment in the fall and was going to do another in the winter. All my hives died from mites before the new year and I have never forgiven them. What they should have said was you needed to do three consecutive treatments like you have to do with summer and fall OAV treatments. The reviews I have read state that the product is best used for a winter treatment and is not very effective for the fall or summer treatments. I cannot comment on the truth of that but I believe Randy Oliver's website has come information on it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Covington County, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,506

    Default Re: Rotating Treatments Question

    My climate does not allow me to use formic and greatly limits my ability to use thymol. I use to be a very big Apiguard fan, but I have had too many absconsions because of temps creeping up during the treatment intervals. I am basically limited to OAV and Apivar. I put Apivar in my hives as soon as I pull supers off for the year (July - August). I use OAV in the spring and the Winter (b/w Thanksgiving and Christmas). My spring use of OAV is generally done in conjunction with splitting. The way I split (a version of fly-back splits) I can usually get both components of the hive broodless, or near broodless, during a short window and hit them both with OAV.

    Using Apivar annually is not an ideal "rotation," but I do what I need to do to keep my bees alive.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Lake Forest Park, WA
    Posts
    577

    Default Re: Rotating Treatments Question

    I assume varroa mites will not develop resistance to OA (they might, someday), so I do OAV whenever it suits me, usually during brood break (after split/swarming, and in early winter).

    I also assume varroa will not become formic-acid resistant (they might, someday), but because formic treatment is harsh, I only do it once a year, in mid-late summer (when it is not too hot).

    The only other chemical I use is apivar, against which varroa mites may develop resistance (some people reported they did, and cattle ticks also developed resistance to amitraz, the active ingredient of apivar). I use it only once a year in fall, if summer treatment (either formic or brood break OAV) failed or re-infestation occurred. I hope using apivar every year this way is OK, because whatever mites surviving apivar treatment will be exterminated by OAV during winter brood break.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Lumpkin County, GA
    Posts
    850

    Default Re: Rotating Treatments Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    I assume varroa mites will not develop resistance to OA (they might, someday), so I do OAV whenever it suits me, usually during brood break (after split/swarming, and in early winter).
    A speaker at our club said that OAV appears to have a physical reaction from the bees or mites. OAV either cuts the mites or stimulates the bees to start grooming. As such, mites can't develop resistance. It is like developing a resistance to a knife wound.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    10,036

    Default Re: Rotating Treatments Question

    For mites to develop resistance to either formic acid or oxalic acid would require massive changes to the actual mite, not just a few changes in DNA. So it is far off, if ever, that we need worry about mite resistance to those.

    Amitraz, the active ingredient of Apivar Strips, has been used in it's raw form by commercial beekeepers, year in and year out, without resistance developing (that we know of). There have been rumours of resistance but i have not seen those confirmed. So at least for now, a person is pretty safe with Apivar strips, long as they are properly positioned and left in the hive long enough. Kuro i'd be interested to see a link about cattle ticks getting resistant to amitraz, if you have one.

    Thymol in the form of Apiguard is very effective, IF weather conditions are right and the colony set up properly. But can be pretty useless if either of those conditions are not met. In my view this product falls into the experienced beekeeper only catagory. But the other thymol product, thymovar, is very unreliable, falls into the don't waste your money on it catagory.

    Some of the other mite remedies that are for sale are pretty useless, in fact in my view worse than useless. Because using them can give the beekeeper a false sense of security and they take no further action, and lose their bees to mites. In my view some of these treatments should not even be sold, thymovar and hopguard being two examples.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •