Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Hopkins County Texas
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    5

    Default Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    My assessment is that a few robbers have returned to this hive, and met with a nasty end. The ground bees are unable to fly, and surge around on the ground. They can climb grass, but fall immediately when they try to fly. Their abdomens seems to pulse and twitch more than usual.

    https://youtu.be/UIp_qSbHzEc

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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    23

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    Personally I don't see any evidence of robbing. From what I can see, entrance traffic looks normal, the bees on the ground don't appear to be fighting at all, and the one struggling around the 25 second mark appears to be a drone (unlikely to be involved in any fighting.) If you have an abnormally high number of bees struggling on the ground perhaps there is another cause?

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,985

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    I believe those symptoms are typical for one of the viruses. Cant remember where I saw it described. Sometimes results in paralysis of rear legs as well as wings. There are a quite a number of different viruses CBPV, IBPV, Kashmiri, etc. I would look in that direction for diagnosis. Not much to be done about it but hope it works through. It is quite normal to spot a few occasional crawlers but not as many as you have.
    Frank

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    904

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    OP, I have had three hives / nucs perish with similar symptoms couple of years back, but in September. If I remember correctly, I described it as "bees on frying pan". I had thousands of dead bees within a day. I posted on these forums and feedback was split between poison and virus / infection. Being that it happened late in the season, I wrote it off for varroa spread virus.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Hopkins County Texas
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    Did some research and I am leaning toward Chronic bee paralysis virus. My plan at this point is to keep a close watch, and treat for Mites before August 15th. Hopefully the hive can remain strong and outrun the virus through the nectar flow. I have seen one drone with deformed wings as well, weeks ago. Long term plan might be to re-queen with a resistant strain?

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    904

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    I would treat for mites right away unless other pressing matters arise. I also advise to keep an eye our for any colonies close my. In my case, I lost two more colonies that robbed the one where problem was first noticed. Your case might be different. Good luck.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,159

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    I agree with the others about a paralysis virus. My very first hive died from one and they were asymptomatic until late Sept. and then dead by mid Oct. That is how I made my aquaintance with the varroa mite. If you do not treat now, it is unlikely you will have bees in July, much less Aug. 15th. MAQS or Formic Pro will work during the flow if you are trying to get some honey and the temps cooperate. More important though is the health of your bees.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Hopkins County Texas
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    I have oxalic acid and a 12v vaporizer.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,159

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    1/2 tsp. per hive every 5 days until no more mites fall. Usually 5-6 treatments for a heavily infested hive. If you do not have a screen bottom with an insert, stick a piece of poster board through the opening to catch the dead mites so you can count them.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
    Posts
    5,536

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    Whoa, the dose for OAV is one-quarter teaspoon per hive box. If you have just two boxes, the 1/2 teaspoon quoted above is correct, but count the actual boxes. Of course, this doesn't count any supers, because you aren't treating with supers on anyway.

    I agree, though, if you are having a serious mite problem, then don't wait months to treat since you may not have any bees left to treat by then. So this means rearranging your honey-harvesting plans, if necessary, to meet the urgency.

    In TX where the OP is, formic acid may not be a viable choice because of temperatures right now. OAV has no such temperature blackout, but with lots of brood may not be as effective as needed. (Though even without full effectiveness due to the amount of brood, it will knock back the mites to a degree. And that temporary, and modest, set-back for the mites may have its uses all by itself. Think of OAV as a harm reduction tool right now, not as the full-strength treatment it is at more appropriate seasons.

    AFAIK, if it is one of viruses, they must run their course. There is no therapeutic intervention, other than support (removing nutritional stress), protection from robbing and reduction of the ongoing vector (killing mites, as many of them as you can, however you can.)

    Nancy

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,641

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    'Teaspoons' is far too vague. The recommended dosage is generally accepted as being one gramme per deep brood box per application.

    Suitable electronic scales can be purchased ex China for very little money - with one of those you can then calibrate your working scoop accordingly.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  13. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,985

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    Many mistakes have been made using teaspoon and tablespoon directions. Tsp. and Tbs. are easily mixed up.

    That said the safety factor for Oxalic acid is quite broad. A person would have to create a very large error to cause bee mortality but since there is no increase in effectiveness, using more than recommended is not to be encouraged.

    I do have accurate scales in grains and milligrams and double checked my measuring spoon volume against the weight designation. Some medications could be very critical and translating metric to imperial weights and volumes is a real opening for a deadly screw up!
    Frank

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Tampa FL USA
    Posts
    346

    Default

    2 other thing you could do, send off the bees to local bee lab to get a definite explanation and do a alcohol wash to get a greater idea of your mite problem.
    Best of luck

  15. #14
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Grand Rapids MI USA
    Posts
    1,566

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    Yup, too early to have crawlers. From what I’ve seen before, it could be mite damaged bees that are too weak to fly also. Get it a handle on the mites!
    Rod

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
    Posts
    5,536

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    OA crystals are very hygroscopic (they attract and take on moisture, easily, like salt) so weighing while generally better may be of less use that volumetric dosing in this case.

    I use a dedicated set of kitchen teaspoon measuring spoons. (Years ago I spent some time measuring them against the volume standard for teaspoons and mine are OK.)

    To avoid any chance of tsp/tbs mix ups I do to two things:

    1) I removed the TABLESPOON from the ring the set is on - it's just not on there anymore.

    2) when I am doing OAV I make it a practice to use my hand to touch each box and make a count of the boxes out loud. I do this even though every single stack in my fall and wintering hives is exactly 4-boxes high. But I count out loud nonetheless, and then say the dose: 4 boxes is four times 1/4 teaspoon, so a full tsp. Ain't nobody but me and the bees out in my yard, and they don't have ears to listen to any foolish talk.

    I use the bakers' dip and sweep technique to avoid packing the material down. I use the back of a McDonald's plastic knife to sweep off any excess OA back down into my container.

    The dose for a nuc, BTW, is 1/8th teaspoon, unless it is a two-story nuc than it would get the full 1/4 tsp shot. To get a 1/8th tsp I fill and level a 1/4 teaspoon and then use the tip of the knife to scrape out half.

    Did I mention that I am a pretty much a belts-and-suspender kind of gal?

    Nancy

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,159

    Default Re: Video of fighting bees, dead and dying bees

    Nancy, what you are is a simply awesome kind of gal. I would marry you in a heartbeat if you weren't already taken, although it might be hard to explain the suspenders. Unlike many other treatments, i don't think one can overdose a hive with OAV. But there is a point where more is simply not better. With a Provap, the cloud of OA crystals at the proper dose remains in the hive for several minutes, long enough to get the job done. I erred in not stating the dose based on number of brood boxes and size. OAV is the only treatment I used last year and all my hives made it through winter, I highly recommend it over other forms of treatment for use in a yard that is local. If I had to drive an hour to get to an out yard, my next go to would be Apivar.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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