what say you?
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Thread: what say you?

  1. #1
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    Default what say you?

    What is your opinion on this situation. Went out to a yard and found a swarm in a tree. One hive that was gangbusters was noticeably less populated so i assume it came from that one. I caught and moved it. Next day i went back to break apart the hive to make splits. most of the queen cells were between the first and second box so when i took off the top box it ripped them open. But then i found a piping queen which i put in a nuc. I was confused as i figured it would take several days for a queen to hatch in a swarm box?? Could this just be the infamous second queen? or was she hatched and me moving her caused an issue with her mating?
    Terrence

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Just a guess: maybe you saw a virgin queen that emerged the day the old queen swarmed? She may have been in the process of killing the queens that hadn’t emerged.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: what say you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelsonhoneybeefarms View Post
    Just a guess: maybe you saw a virgin queen that emerged the day the old queen swarmed? She may have been in the process of killing the queens that hadn’t emerged.
    yes most likely. I had always thought there was a few days of no queen when they swarmed. this one was pretty quick to hatch. I'll have to check back and see if there are any that lived as i put her in a nuc.
    Terrence

  5. #4
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    Default Re: what say you?

    After Swarm! The ruling queen swarms the day the queen cells are capped lead by chemical changes within the hive. A piping queen after a swarm indicates an after swarm when the original queen swarms the first queen emerges 8 later she pipes and kills any queens that answer or does battle with any emerged queens However queen cells that are open or immature get overlooked. when the open cells get capped The same chemical changes cause the rank and file to encourage the virgin to swarm. that is why swarm Management dictates removal of excess queen cells!

  6. #5
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    Default Re: what say you?

    Quote Originally Posted by I'llbeedan View Post
    After Swarm! The ruling queen swarms the day the queen cells are capped lead by chemical changes within the hive. A piping queen after a swarm indicates an after swarm when the original queen swarms the first queen emerges 8 later she pipes and kills any queens that answer or does battle with any emerged queens However queen cells that are open or immature get overlooked. when the open cells get capped The same chemical changes cause the rank and file to encourage the virgin to swarm. that is why swarm Management dictates removal of excess queen cells!
    But it was only one day apart. I caught the swarm and next day went through the boxes hoping to have a bunch of frames with capped cells that i could split. I found the piping queen when going through them. She looked mated to me. What you are saying is there is normally a span of about a week before the cells emerge after the first swarm. right? this was my understanding as well. I just don't know where this one came from. The weather has been fine for a swarm so nothing would have held up the swarm.
    Terrence

  7. #6
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    Default Re: what say you?

    A mated queen does not pipe. Once mated they have little chance against a nimble virgin queen. Piping is a challenge. Why would a bred queen offer a challenge she knows she could not win. The sequence would be the hive swarmed leaving at least 1 capped cell. And probably some newly started queens a queen emerged and because there were other uncapped queen cells the workers encouraged the virgin to swarm before her rivals could be killed while still in the cells. leaving an emerging queen within the hive. Thus the piping virgin you found the next day.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: what say you?

    Depending on weather, and other factors, a swam doesn't always leave when cells are capped. Maybe it was raining, or they tried and the queen hadn't slimmed down enough for flight, etc.

    Watched a hive swarm last year. By the time I boxed the swarm and went to limit cells left in the original hive, saw virgins emerging. Same day.
    Hindsight is 20/10, not 20/20...
    After the fact, I always know what didn't work.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: what say you?

    The only absolutes in beekeeping (and many other things) is that the are no absolutes. It's been so warm (my guess) that my queens are emerging 2 days early. That is unless they are making queens from larva that is too old, which is also not textbook.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: what say you?

    I'll have to disagree with you I'llbeedan although mated queens "usually" don't pipe I have had mated queens in cages next to eachother piping. Not disagreeing with the overall of what you said at all just wanted to put it out there that it is possible to have a mated queen pipe.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: what say you?

    Quote Originally Posted by vtbeeguy View Post
    I'll have to disagree with you I'llbeedan although mated queens "usually" don't pipe I have had mated queens in cages next to eachother piping. Not disagreeing with the overall of what you said at all just wanted to put it out there that it is possible to have a mated queen pipe.
    Yes You are correct. Poor choice of terminology. Should have been Mated queens rarely Pipe. I have had them pipe before too. But they were newly mated queens prepared for shipment.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: what say you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bdfarmer555 View Post
    Depending on weather, and other factors, a swam doesn't always leave when cells are capped. Maybe it was raining, or they tried and the queen hadn't slimmed down enough for flight, etc.

    Watched a hive swarm last year. By the time I boxed the swarm and went to limit cells left in the original hive, saw virgins emerging. Same day.
    And Of course there is absolutely no chance that could have been an after swarm also. Those conditions existing for 9 days would be pretty rare. I have witnessed hives swarm in a downpour. Plump queens are the reason we find swarms in the grass only a few feet from the hive. Many queens take a pre swarm flight also!

  13. #12
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    Default Re: what say you?

    Quote Originally Posted by I'llbeedan View Post
    And Of course there is absolutely no chance that could have been an after swarm also. Those conditions existing for 9 days would be pretty rare. I have witnessed hives swarm in a downpour. Plump queens are the reason we find swarms in the grass only a few feet from the hive. Many queens take a pre swarm flight also!
    Nope. Was not an after swarm was the mated queen from the original box.
    Hindsight is 20/10, not 20/20...
    After the fact, I always know what didn't work.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: what say you?

    [QUOTE=texanbelchers;1730281]The only absolutes in beekeeping (and many other things) is that the are no absolutes. It's been so warm (my guess) that my queens are emerging 2 days early. That is unless they are making queens from larva that is too old, which is also not textbook.[/QUO

    What is larva that is too old?

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