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Introducing new queen question

2K views 18 replies 9 participants last post by  WRLCPA 
#1 ·
So three days ago I took five frames of various stages from 3 different 3 story Nuc's and started a 5 frame split. I have checked and checked for a queen. I ran them through a queen excluder, no queen. Yet, when I put a caged queen on the split, some, not all of the bees are aggressive to the cage trying to sting her. The other bee's display a typical surrounding her looking calmly in at her.

Now as an aside, when I first received her, she was piping. My research suggested that virgin pipe and that a queen less hive wont accept a virgin queen. I received the queen from a reputable source so I am not certain she a virgin.

My question is simply, is the split rejecting her? She is still in the cage so I can remove her if so.
 
#2 ·
Your continued presence will get your caged queen killed! They blame her for the disturbance. She is after all a stranger and not to be trusted. If the candy is exposed, stay out for three days and check to see she has been released. If she has, slide the frames close together and wait another ten days before moving any frames. Feed if necessary but otherwise stay out. By that time, the brood that has emerged will be the nurse bees and attendants surrounding her. They will have never known any other queen and will protect her.

If after that three full days or more your queen has not been released, remove three outside frames and turn her loose at the bottom of the hive where she can scurry under the frames not take off flying. SHE CAN! Replace the frames and stay out for two weeks. Mucking around in the hive earlier can result in the queen being balled and killed.

There will be lots of time later to pull frames and study. A new colony getting established is not the time or place,
 
#5 ·
I have had mated queens in queen cages next to each other and they were piping back and forth. So maybe it's something they can do when young but not once they get older or something. The longer you wait before getting into the hive after putting in the queen cage the better. I do 10 days before I even open it up to check. By then she is out and usually already laying. But either way come up with a plan/timeframe and try to stick to it. Best of luck
 
#6 ·
"If the candy is exposed, stay out for three days and check to see she has been released"..

I still like the Harry Vanderpool method of introduction just stay out of the hive completely for 10 days. I have never found the need to go in to check and see if she has been released after three days? Unless you have rock candy in your cage they'll eat through it fast enough. Having said that, I prefer using push-in cages if I'm not in a hurry. Make a split, put the queen under the push in cage and release her on day 4. Pretty much foolproof. Make sure you look for any fresh eggs before you release her just in case there happens to be a laying queen present. I usually make up a lot of splits from my overwintered nucs by elevating 3-4 frames of mostly capped brood above an excluder and then just go back the next morning and take those frames for my splits with 99% certainty that I don't have a queen there.
 
#7 ·
I guess my question was about whether I should leave the queen in the hive given the aggressive behavior. Vance's comment made perfect sense

I re-corked the cage before I got Vance's recommendation, regardless, I will stay out of the hive for three days, then uncork the cage and leave it alone for ten

Thanks everyone for the responses
 
#8 ·
So three days ago I took five frames of various stages from 3 different 3 story Nuc's and started a 5 frame split.
One of the issues I run into regularly is that if the nuc isn’t hopelessly queenless, then they may start to make their own queen. For whatever reason they may favor their homemade queen to the store bought mated queen.
Putting the cork back in was, in my opinion, a good idea. Also before removing it I would carefully inspect each frame to be certain that there aren’t any emergency cells. If you find any cut them out and leave the cork in for a few more days.
At that point you should be good to go.
 
#9 ·
I have been doing some later season splits for the past week. I ran into this exact situation. The queen cages that I get the bees will often eat through the candy in less than 24 hours. Any more, I cap the candy so the bees cannot get to it and install the cage. I go back in five days and check for emergency cells. I ran into one today that had half a dozen emergency cells that I removed. I left the cap on the candy and will remove it in a few more days.
It works for me. I haven’t noticed any problem with acceptance failure because of my intervention. I usually make anywhere from 50 to 100 nucs each year.
 
#10 ·
Thanks Dan, You may have hit the nail on the head. When i made the split as I said I put frames of various stages INCLUDING fresh eggs. There were still some in the hive today, about three days past the day I made up the split. I won't let her release till the eggs are caped brood
 
#15 ·
I had 3 queens to intro into some 5 frame nucs. I used those plastic queen cages that have the tube on the end. Didn’t have any candy plugs on hand so I crammed marshmallows into the tube. 5 days later 2 of the 3 were released, the third one they ate about 3/4 of the way thru the marshmallow and gave up. Queen was fine, so I direct released her and she got right to work.
 
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