How soon can you split a nuc/package
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  1. #1
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    Default How soon can you split a nuc/package

    How soon can you split a nuc/package that was installed April 3rd, they have two deeps filled up. I'm thinking about buying some vsh queens and splitting them up, not getting any honey this year anyway. Then I'm thinking split them again in spring. I have 5 new hives setting in the building.
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  3. #2
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    You should not have a problem splitting a package two months in. If you have two deeps with most of the frames drawn and coverwd with bees, no reason you could not make 2-3 nucs with them, especially if you will be adding a mated queen to each. Three frames of bees to each nuc and make sure you balance the resources too. May need to knock the donor hive back down to a single deep for a few weeks.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    Thanks, I'd like to have 10-15 going into winter, so I don't have to buy any next year
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  5. #4
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    That might be a little aggressive starting with a package. Heck, it is agressive starting with an overwintered hive. Your biggest hold up will be drawn comb. In another month or so, comb production is going to really slow down. I would shoot for six hives going into winter, then turn that into as many as thirty next year, assuming they all make it through winter. Feeding heavily will help keep the comb getting drawn, but once the flow stops, it is pretty much over for the new comb.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    I have 5 now, 3 were nucs, and 2 packages I combined, and one mating nuc going. I guess I'll get about 4-5 Queens, should I go for a local vsh queen that is 58 miles from here, or get a survivor type queen shipped? The survivor queens sound better, if you don't have to treat them, but a local would be better for the local weather I guess?

    https://brooksmillfarms.com/queen-bees/ local

    or:
    http://wildflowermeadows.com/why-wil...rvivor-queens/
    or theres an ad on this site for survivors from Georgia
    choices, choices
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  7. #6
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    Having 5 hIves is a different story, thought you had a single package. My personal opinion is to go for the VSH queens. TF survivor queens from out of area do not really have a good track record for maintaining that characteristic from what I have heard.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    Thanks for the help, for now I ordered 3 OHB Saskatraz Queens , I have 3 really strong hives, that will be easy to split in half.
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  9. #8
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    "Survivor-type" queens are not guaranteed to NEVER need treating. Anybody making that claim is on very thin ice in IMO. If there was any queenline that was reliably able to not need mite treatments in any environment, we'd all be clamoring for it. And the developer/provider would be a millionaire.

    The very best we can do now are some lines that may need less treatment, but not none. At least if you want to have good survival year to year. And good survival Year-to-year to me means only a very rare winter loss, with no losses at all most years. Expecting 10 or 20 percent losses each year (that can be made up from OW nucs) is not acceptable to me. Successful Varroa management is not a mystery any more, nor is making sure all hives have sufficient stores for the winter in their area. Those two areas account for most winter losses and they are almost entirely beekeeper-amenable.

    Get those two things right, and your big challenge will be swarms.

    Nancy

  10. #9
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    "Survivor-type" queens are not guaranteed to NEVER need treating. Anybody making that claim is on very thin ice in IMO. If there was any queenline that was reliably able to not need mite treatments in any environment, we'd all be clamoring for it. And the developer/provider would be a millionaire.

    The very best we can do now are some lines that may need less treatment, but not none. At least if you want to have good survival year to year. And good survival Year-to-year to me means only a very rare winter loss, with no losses at all most years. Expecting 10 or 20 percent losses each year (that can be made up from OW nucs) is not acceptable to me. Successful Varroa management is not a mystery any more, nor is making sure all hives have sufficient stores for the winter in their area. Those two areas account for most winter losses and they are almost entirely beekeeper-amenable.

    Get those two things right, and your big challenge will be swarms.

    Nancy
    You are a very intelligent poster, and write well, Nancy. Thank you for participating in these forums.

    Greg

  11. #10
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    I would treat em with OAV at the very least, I think the Saskatraz Queens are the same thing but better.
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  12. #11
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    I split my 3 strong hives in half, queens coming tomorrow, hope they accept them and all. only other frames I have are medium, do you think they can over winter in a 8 frame deep, with a medium on top?

    made a video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9qDkTOs6QU&t=154s
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  13. #12
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    Watched your vid, begining to end. The way you were hootin and hollerin after that bee stung you sure didnt seem like it only hurt for a second! And, you almost dropped the frame. Good save BTW.

    Bees look like they are doing real well. Did not show us the bottom box, but I assume they were similar to the tops. FYI, those were well populated hives, but by no means packed. Packed is when you can't see the tops of the bars because there are so many bees.

    You can do medium over deep nucs for winter no problem. I had nine I over wintered as either single deep 5's or with a medium over deep. I keep feeders on the nucs all winter long and give them sugar candy as well as syrup.

    Check carefully for started queen cells before you put the queens in and destroy any you find. You are giving them 24 hrs queenless and I am sure some of those frames had just hatched larvae as you said you put the excluders on 4 days ago.

    Thanks for sharing.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    Watched your vid, begining to end. The way you were hootin and hollerin after that bee stung you sure didnt seem like it only hurt for a second! And, you almost dropped the frame. Good save BTW.

    Bees look like they are doing real well. Did not show us the bottom box, but I assume they were similar to the tops. FYI, those were well populated hives, but by no means packed. Packed is when you can't see the tops of the bars because there are so many bees.

    You can do medium over deep nucs for winter no problem. I had nine I over wintered as either single deep 5's or with a medium over deep. I keep feeders on the nucs all winter long and give them sugar candy as well as syrup.

    Check carefully for started queen cells before you put the queens in and destroy any you find. You are giving them 24 hrs queenless and I am sure some of those frames had just hatched larvae as you said you put the excluders on 4 days ago.

    Thanks for sharing.
    lol that's the first sting I've got that hurt at all, got me on the finger tip with all the nerves., video was only in 720p, filmed in 4k, I need a good movie maker.I did see a few queen cups, better clear em out tomorrow.
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  15. #14
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    I went through them all, found the queen in the one hive I moved up, so skipped that one. I scraped out all the queen cups, and squeezed the queen cage screen side down,between the frames in the middle, removed the plug, no nail hole, I'll wait a week-10 days before I check I guess. Then I'm thinking about treating with formic acid, is this the right time of year? Edit: scratch that, read the directions, maybe Apivar, video of the installation uploaded in my vlog.
    Last edited by ifixoldhouses; 06-01-2019 at 03:39 PM.
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  16. #15
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    Default Re: How soon can you split a nuc/package

    It's fixing to rain here for a week, so I took out the queen cages, and fed everyone, added Apivar strips. I have one hive (single deep 8 frame )that is so packed they sleep outside of it, and won't draw any comb in the medium box, think I should split it again?
    see it at about 4:50 mark here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfe3sDnct3o&t=336s
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
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