Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    I must say I never realized there were so many old woman on beesource all complaining that someone is asking for help with a research project that might or might not be of assistance to beekeepers in the future. Is it the $20 that is troubling you or the possibility that new beekeepers will no longer need your sage advice. I suppose you all would rather invest in flow hives or some other junk like that instead of possible useful research. For $20! get a life.
    John, you, of all people should know better. This is NOT about $20. I purchased your EasyVap and never even blinked for $150. I purchased YOUR EasyVap precisely because I saw you share your expertise, bill of materials, how to construct etc with the members here. I decided I rather give money to someone like you than trying to build it myself.

    These folks are making extra ordinary claims. Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary proof.

    I will gladly pay this venture $50 (or even $200) if the claims are backed by data or even if they say "We dont know yet and we need money to do research". Dubious claims backed by no data at all, sprinkled in AI and dancing around irritates me to no end. And throw in claims like "This will app will tell whats wrong with you bees, listen to bees" BS, they are setting up newbeekeepers.

    I send some money to Randy Oliver once in a while because I see him putting information out there for what it is. And I think the $100 I send once in a while is a drop in a bucket for what he does.

    I will donate $100 NOW with no expectation of anything in return if these folks sound twice honest as they do now.
    Last edited by DaisyNJ; 05-21-2019 at 08:26 PM.

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaProf View Post
    DaisyNJ,

    Our scientists have plenty of peer reviewed research (not data, that's almost never published) from their 30 years of working with bees. I would be absolutely delighted to show you the details of this particular research in person, and welcome you to stop by the University of Montana to review.

    It sounds like you're pretty accomplished as a researcher yourself, so you know that it would take a complete, peer-reviewed paper to do what you're asking here - anything less just opens up a million more questions. And of course, even peer-reviewed papers are frequently lambasted by those you take a different view of the science. Scientists disagree all the time, even when something is in a top-tier peer reviewed journal (and our work is in Science and PLoS One, for example).

    We've taken a different approach here than publishing a peer-reviewed journal and allowing someone else to commercialize what we've been working on. We do hold the U.S. patent for listening to bees and using AI to figure out what's wrong with them. We've decided to package all of our work in to a pretty amazing smartphone app.
    You seem mixing different issues. Presenting "results" does NOT reveal the methods. You still haven't named the researchers involved in this app, how many colonies were tested, in how many cases did it predict correctly and who validated those results.

    You are not listening to the very population you expect to be customers. Good luck.
    Last edited by DaisyNJ; 05-21-2019 at 07:25 PM.

  4. #43
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    What the hey, I’ve spent $20 and more on other bee gadgets like the fogger for FGMO!
    Wasn’t there a gadget that predicted a swarm from the sound the bees made? If I remember correctly, it did work.
    Last edited by snl; 05-21-2019 at 06:53 PM.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    I wonder if a new hive tool would get this much scrutiny.

    Oh, wait..., this is a new hive tool.

    Nevermind.
    5 Production colonies, 1 side by side 5 frame nuc for support- 7 working queens is all I want.

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Grins View Post
    I wonder if a new hive tool would get this much scrutiny.

    Oh, wait..., this is a new hive tool.

    Nevermind.
    Does your new hive tool help me listen to my bees ? Give me your paypal and I will send $20 promptly :-)

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyNJ View Post
    Does your new hive tool help me listen to my bees ? Give me your paypal and I will send $20 promptly :-)
    You know, I'm fairly new to bee keeping but one of the early lessons was, 'listen when you open the hive.' I have and quickly learned when a hive is queenless. Why you can't extend that to other maladies is odd to me. Bees buzz, a good bee keeper listens. What's wrong with better ears?
    5 Production colonies, 1 side by side 5 frame nuc for support- 7 working queens is all I want.

  8. #47
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Grins View Post
    You know, I'm fairly new to bee keeping but one of the early lessons was, 'listen when you open the hive.' I have and quickly learned when a hive is queenless. Why you can't extend that to other maladies is odd to me. Bees buzz, a good bee keeper listens. What's wrong with better ears?
    The queenless "roar" is verified by multiple beekeepers, documented in the videos, passed on at beekeeping clubs. Great, write an app for it and sell it. No problems.
    When is the last time anyone "heard" anything that "told them" what the varroa infestation rate was ? When is the last time a reputable researcher or beekeeper claimed they can "hear" an AFB or EFB ?

    I learned (and was told by many) that you can tell presence of brood (and even queen) by looking at the traffic at the entrance. But its pretty dishonest for me to then extend that claim that I am developing an app that can tell varroa infestation rate by looking at the entrance picture, especially if I then claim I wont publish any test data because that "somehow reveals" inner workings of my "hardwork".

    Apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples.

  9. #48
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyNJ View Post
    The queenless "roar" is verified by multiple beekeepers, documented in the videos, passed on at beekeeping clubs. Great, write an app for it and sell it. No problems.
    When is the last time anyone "heard" anything that "told them" what the varroa infestation rate was ? When is the last time a reputable researcher or beekeeper claimed they can "hear" an AFB or EFB ?

    I learned (and was told by many) that you can tell presence of brood (and even queen) by looking at the traffic at the entrance. But its pretty dishonest for me to then extend that claim that I am developing an app that can tell varroa infestation rate by looking at the entrance picture, especially if I then claim I wont publish any test data because that "somehow reveals" inner workings of my "hardwork".

    Apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples.
    Daisy, I don't think you should buy it.
    5 Production colonies, 1 side by side 5 frame nuc for support- 7 working queens is all I want.

  10. #49
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaProf View Post
    Terrence,

    I would be very happy indeed to show you all this in person. Please feel free to stop by the University of Montana and I will happily go over all of our data with you.

    The Bee Health Guru is a diagnostic tool to help beekeepers. I would imagine many beekeepers would find it very useful indeed to have a diagnostic tool to help them. I would also imagine that some beekeepers have no need at all of a tool to help them manage their bees.

    I am a beginning beekeeper and had the opportunity to use a beta-version of the Bee Health Guru in a yard where the professional beekeeper was certain that one colony had AFB. I scanned each hive for 30 seconds, let the AI do it's work after each scan, and when I was done I told the professional beekeeper which hive the Bee Health Guru was identifying as the AFB problem colony. The Bee Health Guru was correct. Useful? For me it was. Worth $20? Absolutely for me.
    So i travel to Montana and you suddenly have studies that you will share with me that you can't now? I can't imagine how crappy they must be to not want the world to have the data. If i had some data from your gadget and it even showed 50 percent effectivness i'd think that would be a selling point. Honestly if you said it was presently 20 percent but with increased use and users you believed it would get to 50 i'd not be as skeptical. i'm out.
    Terrence

  11. #50
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have


    if! you are a prof at UM, please tell us your name, and give us your references, show us the data. A real teacher/prof from any university would have no problem giving their name, dept heads and proof of work for others to check these references, especially with claims of being connected to UM.

    your claims sound like the snakeoil scammer from days gone past.

    I personally don't believe you or your claims, others can believe what they want without proof
    DavidZ

  12. #51
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    Default

    All his info is readily available and what a surprise, he doesn't want to hand out his data set to some jerk on the internet calling him a snake oil salesman. If you don't like the idea of his product after thinking about it for all of 3 minutes than go to the next thread in the forum, I'm sure some noob needs your all knowing wisdom as to why their package absconded.
    Christ.
    Last edited by Ravenseye; 05-22-2019 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Language

  13. #52
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhaupt2 View Post
    Y'all are a bunch of crochety bastards aren't you. All his info is readily available and what a surprise, he doesn't want to hand out his data set to some jerk on the internet calling him a snake oil salesman. If you don't like the idea of his product after thinking about it for all of 3 minutes than go to the next thread in the forum, I'm sure some noob needs your all knowing wisdom as to why their package absconded.


    Wow, it is a kickstarter! The total amount they are seeking, and the amount they are asking of each participant is minimal. They claim it works, and there are some who have seen it work. It sounds possible. More details were published in Bee Culture last month, and there is a podcast as well, for anyone who wants a little more info.

    They are hoping that participants would be able to supply more data to help it to ultimately work better. Isn't that a good thing? Data collection is part of the process. Acquiring funds is part of the process. Give them a break and let them give it a good try!

  14. #53
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    have to agree with bushpilot here. The write up in beeculture was interesting.
    I dont think they are claiming this is 100% accurate and the answer in totality to the issue of varroa. It seems though like an avenue worth considering and for $20 what do we really have to lose given the amount of money and time we all spend on mites?
    Think of the cost of one box of apivar or formic pro. Heck im in for $20 to see if it pans out. If it doesnt then so be it. Wouldnt be the first good idea that has failed.

  15. #54
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    I hear an awful lot of chatter from folks that are ill informed. If you are a serious beekeeper, you already know who is behind this project and what his credentials are. I will admit I was very disappointed with the video presentation. It seemed smarmy and I really don't think new technology should be presented by folks that look and sound like aged flower children.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    I hear an awful lot of chatter from folks that are ill informed. If you are a serious beekeeper, you already know who is behind this project and what his credentials are. I will admit I was very disappointed with the video presentation. It seemed smarmy and I really don't think new technology should be presented by folks that look and sound like aged flower children.
    Is this some Harry Potter secret society where only the folks with the code would know the names ? I am not a serious beekeeper, can you do me favor and spill the beans. The OP didnt give full names of these researchers. Can you please, so I can get over this suspense ?

    Appreciate it. Thanks.

    On a related matter, this forum gives me hope in getting some of my AI skills to market. Glad to see folks are willing to throw in "mere $20" for AI.

  17. #56
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    I wonder what chance artificial intelligence has when there is so little natural intelligence about. There was no peer reviewed papers on the device I advertised, yet beekeepers came out and invested their money and trusted that I would deliver as promised at a much higher cost than $20. Now I do not even own a smart phone and do not intend to purchase one either yet I an quite happy to donate $20 to the Professors research just to see if something can come out of it beneficial or not, just as a small donation to someone in Grass Valley does not mean I have to gain something from the donation or that he is a snake oil salesman taking advantage of so many of us addle headed beekeepers. If you are curious and wish to see where this will go to get involved, if you are not refrain from maligning the messenger and let us poor suckers do what we think is in our interest.

  18. #57
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    Default

    U can listen to the podcast about the app if u so desire
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  19. #58
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhaupt2 View Post
    Y'all are a bunch of ...
    Yes, I am, but I prefer the term, "cantankerous", as there is nothing wrong with my crotch and I don't have to stick a smartphone down my pants to know this. What is wrong with learning for ones self what is wrong with your bees by looking? Isn't that part of the fun of beekeeping, learning? Is the human experience going to one day be reduced to a collection of apps and algorithms? What are we gonna do if something like this happens?https://science.nasa.gov/science-new...rringtonflare/ or we get hit y a first strike from an EMP bomb. C,mon kids, look up, you're much smarter than your phones and much more interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by aran View Post
    It seems though like an avenue worth considering and for $20 what do we really have to lose given the amount of money and time we all spend on mites?
    I think I'll start a GoKickMyStarter campaign selling solar clothes dryer attachments; Basic model $20.00, AKA rope, Delux model $30.00 AKA wire coated cable. What's everybody got to lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    I hear an awful lot of chatter from folks that are ill informed. If you are a serious beekeeper, you already know who is behind this project and what his credentials are.
    Please, enlighten me, for I must be an ill informed frivolous beekeeper because I don't know all about these people.
    I did, however, go to the U of M and search for Bee Health Guru and came up with nothing. I quickly bored of this as I am so frivolous. By the way, what self respecting beekeeper would hang the handle of "Guru" on ones' self or product?

    My apologies to all, for I am having a Senior and Twilight Zone moment all rolled into one.

    Alex
    Last edited by Ravenseye; 05-22-2019 at 07:27 AM. Reason: Text on wrong side of quote / Language
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  20. #59
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    While I do not wish to "out" the OP with his true identity, he did not seem to want too much anonymity with his choice of username. Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk and Dr. David Firth, the developers of the beeguru app, recently appeared on Kim Flottum's "Beekeeping Today" podcast to discuss their research and development of this app. One of these gentlemen founded and developed the U of Montana Master Beekeepers course (I can't remember which one).

    I would encourage anyone, including the doubters, to listen to this podcast. I am not telling you that it will erase all doubt. But I did leave with the feeling that these were serious researchers taking a good stab at this new technology. How effective will it be? They gave some anecdotal examples and I am interested. Like everything else though, the proof for me will only come when it is in my beeyards, successfully diagnosing hives.

    I know beekeepers get flooded with useless gimmicks and miracle devices or medicine every year that turns out to be garbage. It doesn't help that our beekeeping suppliers seem all too willing to sell whatever unproven crap comes through. But innovations will ultimately come and I want to keep my mind open to it. Don't shoot this down so quickly.

  21. #60
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    I wonder what chance artificial intelligence has when there is so little natural intelligence about. There was no peer reviewed papers on the device I advertised, yet beekeepers came out and invested their money and trusted that I would deliver as promised at a much higher cost than $20. Now I do not even own a smart phone and do not intend to purchase one either yet I an quite happy to donate $20 to the Professors research just to see if something can come out of it beneficial or not, just as a small donation to someone in Grass Valley does not mean I have to gain something from the donation or that he is a snake oil salesman taking advantage of so many of us addle headed beekeepers. If you are curious and wish to see where this will go to get involved, if you are not refrain from maligning the messenger and let us poor suckers do what we think is in our interest.
    Tell you what. I do software engineering & AI for banking, for living. I have friends and colleagues who work at Amazon audio division that were involved in latest Alexa updates to "listen" to cracking glass and alerting for potential burglary. Amazon poured millions $$$$ into identifying cracking glass. And they are pioneers in AI and have massive data analytics resources. I can tell you with fair certainty that large portion of AI out there is vaporware. Like that blockchain cr*p peddled by even CEOs of largest banks. Its amazing (and sad state of affairs) how gullible people can be.

    Coming to your product. Guess how many people would have purchased your device if you advertised a black box and cheesy video of smoke coming out of a hole in the said black box and claimed everything else was proprietary and you couldn't share if it would run off a battery, 110v, solar power, or magnetic fields. To top it off, you wouldn't even tell the potential purchasers if it actually takes oxalic acid. I dont know about you, I ain't giving a penny to such folks even if they got degrees printed on a mile long paper.

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