Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    I do not feel it is appropriate to sell wares or such on this part of the forum. New keepers will be buying it without a gaurentee. I would like to see your scientific tests and half blind data. Personally i doubt this is an effective tool which will lead to hands off beekeeping and spike in colony deaths - exactly what it claims to stop.
    Terrence

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Grins View Post
    I'm curious about a couple things, David. The goal was $13400, what happens to the money in excess of that? And, do you have a sense of how much the app will cost in its full form after the beta phase?
    Grins, great questions.

    Kickstarter has an interesting model in that it's all-or-nothing. If you don't meet the goal you set you get nothing at all. Because of that we set our goal at the absolute bare minimum. Any money in excess of the goal as well as the money up to the goal goes to helping us improve the artificial intelligence aspects and to TUNE the app. We are pretty certain that there are regional variances in how bees speak (as it were). We now have over 400 supporters, and we how many of them will be citizen scientists and use the app and let us know how it is doing. With that information we can make the AI work better and give better results.

    We are anticipating the app will cost in the $10 - $20 range when it is in its full form. We plan on using those funds to continually improve and tune the app.

  4. #23

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    Pat Bono from NY bee wellness had an early version of this at a bee meeting we had last year where hives are opened up. Worked fine on the hives I was doing. I would go for it, but hate to give up my new flip phone.
    Thank you for that wildbranch 2007. We are very confident that the app works pretty well indeed.

    As you note, this needs a smartphone not a flip-phone though!

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    Personally i doubt this is an effective tool which will lead to hands off beekeeping and spike in colony deaths - exactly what it claims to stop.
    well I saw the beta version and it did everything that was claimed of it.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  6. #25

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    I do not feel it is appropriate to sell wares or such on this part of the forum. New keepers will be buying it without a gaurentee. I would like to see your scientific tests and half blind data. Personally i doubt this is an effective tool which will lead to hands off beekeeping and spike in colony deaths - exactly what it claims to stop.
    Kaizen / Terrence, the scientists working on this have been doing research on bees for over 30 years, and have had their work published in Science and PLoS One. Of course, that doesn't guarantee that this research is up to those same world class standards, but the bee scientists at the heart of this are scientists first and foremost, which means the research is up to those same world class standards. We've not published the results for this smartphone app because that's the secret sauce of how this app works. But we do have the U.S. patent for using acoustics to listen to bees and tell you what's wrong with them using AI.

    If you are skeptical of the app's ability, just $20 gets you the pre-release version and you can try it out!!

    As for "hands off beekeeping", we are not advocating that at all. What we're hoping to do is provide another tool for beekeepers, from novice to professional, to be able to interact better with their bees and keep bees healthy.

    I personally see this being very helpful indeed for beekeepers, especially novice beekeepers, as they can use a smartphone app to listen to their bees and have the bees tell them what is wrong, and then pop the hive and do a more informed inspection.
    Last edited by MontanaProf; 05-21-2019 at 08:54 AM.

  7. #26

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandLife View Post
    I've pledged my $75 as a Healthy Bees Founder! Looking forward to contributing and using!!
    Thank you Island Life!! We really appreciate your support very much indeed.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaProf View Post
    Kaizen / Terrence, the scientists working on this have been doing research on bees for over 30 years, and have had their work published in Science and PLoS One. Of course, that doesn't guarantee that this research is up to those same world class standards, but the bee scientists at the heart of this are scientists first and foremost, which means the research is very solid. We've not published the results for this smartphone app because that's the secret sauce of how this app works. But we do have the U.S. patent for using acoustics to listen to bees and tell you what's wrong with them using AI.

    If you are skeptical of the app's ability, just $20 gets you the pre-release version and you can try it out!!

    As for "hands off beekeeping", we are not advocating that at all. What we're hoping to do is provide another tool for beekeepers, from novice to professional, to be able to interact better with their bees and keep bees healthy.

    I personally see this being very helpful indeed for beekeepers, especially novice beekeepers, as they can use a smartphone app to listen to their bees and have the bees tell them what is wrong, and then pop the hive and do a more informed inspection.
    I'm not asking for the wavelenghths of your secret sauce. I'm asking for "we tested 100 hives that had efb and 89 times the app detected it" or "we made 20 mite bombs with no other diseases and it picked it up 99 percent of the time". you know like actual science not just the latest artificial intelligence taglines and non specific "scientists" working on this. Sounds to me like you want all of these people to actually donate, get the app, then do the hard work and give you data so you can try and find some patterns.
    I'm no audiofile but pretty sure any noise made by a colony will be affected by the type of hive structure, size of cluster, amount and size of openings to the box. Just like a subwoofer. None of this appears to be mentioned in your sales pitch.
    Terrence

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    well I saw the beta version and it did everything that was claimed of it.
    What exactly did that testing look like? Were there 20 hives and it was used on each one, spit out a result, and then verified? Please don't say it said "mites" and you called it working.
    Terrence

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    What exactly did that testing look like? Were there 20 hives and it was used on each one, spit out a result, and then verified? Please don't say it said "mites" and you called it working.
    we used the app to pic a hive out of the hives assigned to me. can't remember what the app said as I was doing other things. The hive picked was an ankle biter queen, that an alcohol wash had extremely high mite count enough that I asked the guy who's hives they were to go get some MAQ pro from the back of my truck and we treated it. the hives next to it were fine for a mite count. not sure if the app actually said it had high mites or a problem, I wasn't running the phone. I'll try and find the pictures of the test and the mites if that will help you.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaProf View Post
    Kaizen / Terrence, the scientists working on this have been doing research on bees for over 30 years, and have had their work published in Science and PLoS One. Of course, that doesn't guarantee that this research is up to those same world class standards, but the bee scientists at the heart of this are scientists first and foremost, which means the research is up to those same world class standards. We've not published the results for this smartphone app because that's the secret sauce of how this app works. But we do have the U.S. patent for using acoustics to listen to bees and tell you what's wrong with them using AI.

    If you are skeptical of the app's ability, just $20 gets you the pre-release version and you can try it out!!

    As for "hands off beekeeping", we are not advocating that at all. What we're hoping to do is provide another tool for beekeepers, from novice to professional, to be able to interact better with their bees and keep bees healthy.

    I personally see this being very helpful indeed for beekeepers, especially novice beekeepers, as they can use a smartphone app to listen to their bees and have the bees tell them what is wrong, and then pop the hive and do a more informed inspection.
    Sorry to say, that sounds like a bunch of empty promises and dancing around. Real scientists publish the "results" at the least. You don't have to publish HOW, specific frequency and other attributes that map to specific issues.

    Who are these scientists ?
    Where did they work and continue to work now ?
    Are they full time and part of this project ?
    What was the process of testing in this specific context ?
    What are the details around sampling, verification methods, controls ?
    How was the output of the app verified ? What methods were used to verify the results ?
    What was the error rate ? What was false positive rate ?
    etc..etc.etc.


    Real scientists who has been in research for 30 years should already know this and shouldn't have to be told by some nobody like me. Don't scam people into giving money unless you can back it up with published data thats peer reviewed.
    Last edited by DaisyNJ; 05-21-2019 at 11:36 AM.

  12. #31
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Can I hire your development team? Since they can create an AI program for pennies (/s) . Please don't throw out an AI just to make it sound cool.

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    I wonder if Robert Russell is one of the scientists.

  14. #33
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by tom0354 View Post
    Can I hire your development team? Since they can create an AI program for pennies (/s) . Please don't throw out an AI just to make it sound cool.
    Just the latest advertising tag lines that invokes the public to blush with donations. hmmm whats the other one? oh yea "Save the bees".
    I really don't think this should be allowed on this site. Every person that is selling something now has the right to come here and advertise?
    Terrence

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    I must say I never realized there were so many old woman on beesource all complaining that someone is asking for help with a research project that might or might not be of assistance to beekeepers in the future. Is it the $20 that is troubling you or the possibility that new beekeepers will no longer need your sage advice. I suppose you all would rather invest in flow hives or some other junk like that instead of possible useful research. For $20! get a life.

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    I must say I never realized there were so many old woman on beesource all complaining that someone is asking for help with a research project that might or might not be of assistance to beekeepers in the future. Is it the $20 that is troubling you or the possibility that new beekeepers will no longer need your sage advice. I suppose you all would rather invest in flow hives or some other junk like that instead of possible useful research. For $20! get a life.
    exactly
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  17. #36

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    What exactly did that testing look like? Were there 20 hives and it was used on each one, spit out a result, and then verified? Please don't say it said "mites" and you called it working.
    The Bee Health Guru smartphone app gives a confidence level for what it is hearing from the bees. The stronger the confidence level, the more you have the health problem with your bees.

  18. #37

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by tom0354 View Post
    Can I hire your development team? Since they can create an AI program for pennies (/s) . Please don't throw out an AI just to make it sound cool.
    Tom0354,

    I have no idea why you think we were able to develop the Bee Health Guru for pennies. This has been a multi-year project and we've funded it with money from a wide variety of resources.

    I understand your concern with the use of the term AI. I also believe it is used too often for things that are probably not AI.

    However, our lead programmer got his masters degree in Computer Science from the University of Montana with his thesis being an early application of AI to listen to bees and to monitor bee dynamics in real time. That was in 1998 and he's been working to develop his AI skills with us for over 20 years to bring what is in our Bee Health Guru.

  19. #38

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyNJ View Post
    Sorry to say, that sounds like a bunch of empty promises and dancing around. Real scientists publish the "results" at the least. You don't have to publish HOW, specific frequency and other attributes that map to specific issues.

    Who are these scientists ?
    Where did they work and continue to work now ?
    Are they full time and part of this project ?
    What was the process of testing in this specific context ?
    What are the details around sampling, verification methods, controls ?
    How was the output of the app verified ? What methods were used to verify the results ?
    What was the error rate ? What was false positive rate ?
    etc..etc.etc.


    Real scientists who has been in research for 30 years should already know this and shouldn't have to be told by some nobody like me. Don't scam people into giving money unless you can back it up with published data thats peer reviewed.
    DaisyNJ,

    Our scientists have plenty of peer reviewed research (not data, that's almost never published) from their 30 years of working with bees. I would be absolutely delighted to show you the details of this particular research in person, and welcome you to stop by the University of Montana to review.

    It sounds like you're pretty accomplished as a researcher yourself, so you know that it would take a complete, peer-reviewed paper to do what you're asking here - anything less just opens up a million more questions. And of course, even peer-reviewed papers are frequently lambasted by those you take a different view of the science. Scientists disagree all the time, even when something is in a top-tier peer reviewed journal (and our work is in Science and PLoS One, for example).

    We've taken a different approach here than publishing a peer-reviewed journal and allowing someone else to commercialize what we've been working on. We do hold the U.S. patent for listening to bees and using AI to figure out what's wrong with them. We've decided to package all of our work in to a pretty amazing smartphone app.

  20. #39

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    I'm not asking for the wavelenghths of your secret sauce. I'm asking for "we tested 100 hives that had efb and 89 times the app detected it" or "we made 20 mite bombs with no other diseases and it picked it up 99 percent of the time". you know like actual science not just the latest artificial intelligence taglines and non specific "scientists" working on this. Sounds to me like you want all of these people to actually donate, get the app, then do the hard work and give you data so you can try and find some patterns.
    I'm no audiofile but pretty sure any noise made by a colony will be affected by the type of hive structure, size of cluster, amount and size of openings to the box. Just like a subwoofer. None of this appears to be mentioned in your sales pitch.
    Terrence,

    I would be very happy indeed to show you all this in person. Please feel free to stop by the University of Montana and I will happily go over all of our data with you.

    The Bee Health Guru is a diagnostic tool to help beekeepers. I would imagine many beekeepers would find it very useful indeed to have a diagnostic tool to help them. I would also imagine that some beekeepers have no need at all of a tool to help them manage their bees.

    I am a beginning beekeeper and had the opportunity to use a beta-version of the Bee Health Guru in a yard where the professional beekeeper was certain that one colony had AFB. I scanned each hive for 30 seconds, let the AI do it's work after each scan, and when I was done I told the professional beekeeper which hive the Bee Health Guru was identifying as the AFB problem colony. The Bee Health Guru was correct. Useful? For me it was. Worth $20? Absolutely for me.

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    I must say I never realized there were so many old woman on beesource all complaining that someone is asking for help with a research project that might or might not be of assistance to beekeepers in the future. Is it the $20 that is troubling you or the possibility that new beekeepers will no longer need your sage advice. I suppose you all would rather invest in flow hives or some other junk like that instead of possible useful research. For $20! get a life.
    Call it how you see it. That is what i did by questioning the product they are selling. They are NOT asking for help from us to help them like others have on research. They are selling a product and will be selling a product. If you think this is about 20 bucks you're not getting my complaints/questions. I still have not seen any shred of data produced which i find strange. LOTS of new beekeepers here and at least now they are not just jumping in thinking they will get a miracle on a cell phone. Sage advice.........thats funny.......
    Terrence

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