Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have - Page 12
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  1. #221
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Allen, Texas, USA
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    38

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Son Rise Apiaries View Post
    The app told me I had foul brood on 3 of my hives, so I burned my whole apiary. This app has helped tons thanks guys
    Take off, nuke it from orbit... It's the only way to be sure.

    But ya, that's was my concern too - knee jerk reaction. I mean, what do you trust more - your eyes and experience or a high-tech AI brain built by PhD's and fine tuned by data scientist?

    Anyone had any luck with this thing yet? Curious minds want to know.

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  3. #222
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Covington County, Alabama, USA
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    1,507

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by hypsin View Post
    Anyone had any luck with this thing yet? Curious minds want to know.
    I had low expectations. They remain low. My primary issue with the data collection is that they do not let you "opt-out" of a reading. For instance, if it says I have low varroa, I am supposed to confirm. Well, the only way I know how to confirm is to do an alcohol wash. I am not going to do an alcohol wash for every scan.

    So it should give me an option that says "Did not confirm." However, it doesn't give me that option. Instead it defaults to "None," which I take to mean that I reported no varroa mites in my hive. Even when I did not check. That is going to give you way too many false positives to successfully mine that data and improve your software. Maybe they throw that out, but that doesn't make a lot of sense either.

    The same is true for Nosema. How am I to confirm Nosema? The only method I know is to squish bees in a plastic bag and smear them on a slide and put it under a microscope. How many beekeepers do you think are doing that every time they upload a scan? But every time they upload a "None" which I take to mean "No nosema" confirmed by the beekeeper.

    I am a patient guy and I go out of my way to support new technologies. I know a lot of folks like to sit in the cheap seats and rip on new innovations and innovators, but I like to give them a chance because 1 out of 100 will ultimately lead to something and I think we should encourage that.

    However, I am not going to upload any more scans to BeeHealthGuru until they address what I think is an obvious issue with the integrity of the data they are collecting.

  4. #223
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Catskills, New York, USA
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    1,542

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    This app is a citizen science project! The more info uploaded the more refined the app will be.
    Take the reading then inspect. Write what you find in the hive in the notes part of the app. I agree about the nosema, but I believe they are talking about n. cerana, not n. apis. I put notes on everything, mite rolls, how many mites, treatments for mites, dates of that, if and when they swarmed, etc. The more you give them the more info they have to refine this project. I know in NY Pat Bonos NY Bee Wellness has a virus mapping program that you send in bees and they test them for various viruses and pesticides. So I put that testing info in the note area also. One hive has low n.cerana, the other none, etc. Have you heard of the Mite-A-Thon that Pollinator Partnership is running now? Same type of thing.
    Proverbs 16:24

  5. #224
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
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    2,295

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    This app is a citizen science project! The more info uploaded the more refined the app will be.
    Take the reading then inspect. Write what you find in the hive in the notes part of the app. I agree about the nosema, but I believe they are talking about n. cerana, not n. apis. I put notes on everything, mite rolls, how many mites, treatments for mites, dates of that, if and when they swarmed, etc. The more you give them the more info they have to refine this project. I know in NY Pat Bonos NY Bee Wellness has a virus mapping program that you send in bees and they test them for various viruses and pesticides. So I put that testing info in the note area also. One hive has low n.cerana, the other none, etc. Have you heard of the Mite-A-Thon that Pollinator Partnership is running now? Same type of thing.
    You certainly are an overly positive dispostion on this. If everyone did not fork over their money for the use of this then i would agree its a big science project. but that is not what happened. They claim they had years of research bla bla bla so this should have at least come close out of the box. Instead they are building the database from what users are claiming. Exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to do. It was brought up before.....everyone is using different microphones on different phones with different operating systems......Those recording results will sound differently to a computer.
    Where is the user that was selling this to all of beesource? have they been back to explain their horrible failure?
    Terrence

  6. #225
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    Mar 2012
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    Catskills, New York, USA
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    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    You certainly are an overly positive dispostion on this. If everyone did not fork over their money for the use of this then i would agree its a big science project. but that is not what happened. They claim they had years of research bla bla bla so this should have at least come close out of the box. Instead they are building the database from what users are claiming. Exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to do. It was brought up before.....everyone is using different microphones on different phones with different operating systems......Those recording results will sound differently to a computer.
    Where is the user that was selling this to all of beesource? have they been back to explain their horrible failure?
    Can you show me where that was said from the Bee Guru people? I have not seen that at all. I’d appreciate it, thank you. Deb
    A quote from the first post: “We are looking for your help to push this project across the finish line, and to help us improve the app! We want YOU to be citizen scientists and help us improve the Bee Health Guru app. 100% of the money raised will go to making improvements to the app...improvements that beekeepers like you or your friends who are beekeepers tell us they want to see. As citizen scientists, we are wanting our Bee Health Guru app users to use the app, and then tell us what they are seeing inside their hives. The Bee Health Guru app has a built-in reporting function that will allow users to record what they are seeing, comparing it to what the Bee Health Guru app is hearing, and report all that back to us here at Bee Health Guru so we can make the app better! “
    Proverbs 16:24

  7. #226
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Derry, New Hampshire
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    2,295

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    Can you show me where that was said from the Bee Guru people? I have not seen that at all. I’d appreciate it, thank you. Deb
    A quote from the first post: “We are looking for your help to push this project across the finish line, and to help us improve the app! We want YOU to be citizen scientists and help us improve the Bee Health Guru app. 100% of the money raised will go to making improvements to the app...improvements that beekeepers like you or your friends who are beekeepers tell us they want to see. As citizen scientists, we are wanting our Bee Health Guru app users to use the app, and then tell us what they are seeing inside their hives. The Bee Health Guru app has a built-in reporting function that will allow users to record what they are seeing, comparing it to what the Bee Health Guru app is hearing, and report all that back to us here at Bee Health Guru so we can make the app better! “
    Well "The Bee Health Guru: Helping Beekeepers Keep Healthy Bees. A smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what is wrong with them!" seems pretty clear. Perhaps they should have said "after you give us a few years of scientific data and 28k"?
    Seriously no mention of size of hive or configuration, phone or speaker type, amount of bees, even breed of bees as we all know they behave differently............some pretty big data points that should be recorded to then make this recording usable.
    After all the years they claim to be working on this shouldn't they at least have mites down pat?
    You are experienced and its your money. I'm trying to play the other side warning newbs that its not going to help them learn
    Terrence

  8. #227
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Allen, Texas, USA
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    This app is a citizen science project! The more info uploaded the more refined the app will be.
    If that's the case then app should be free / open source.

    They are shooting themselves in the foot by pay-walling data collection efforts. Let's be honest - only a small fraction of beekeepers use smartphones to manage hives. Out of those, a small fraction would be interested and/or use this product. And out of those, a small fraction would be willing to pay money for it. That means = smaller user base > less data available to train the model > less accuracy > less new users > etc etc etc.

    It just smells like a money grab.

  9. #228
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA, USA
    Posts
    25

    Default

    I have Bee Health Guru app and in spring when my hives were healthy, the app register all my hives as so (maybe default position?). It recently neglected to read my two queenless hive splits. It also didn’t catch high mite levels and several other issues. Even if this app is perfected the issue with this app is the same with Flow Hive. Newbie beeks will rely on it and not bother to go into hive to understand and learn what is actually going on and make own diagnostic. Similarly some Flow Hive owners think they can just purchase bees in flow hive and never check brood box; that is not so, it only makes extraction easier - all the other beekeeping maintenance requires same amount of effort. It encourages bad beekeeping habits.

  10. #229
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
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    3,721

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    How would you have been able to use this past spring, an app that only came out a month ago?
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  11. #230
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    Apr 2018
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA, USA
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    Default

    JW - you’re right it was in July or August .... I was gone all June.

  12. #231
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
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    3,721

    Default Re: Smartphone app that listens to bees to tell you what health issues they have

    Time gets muddled for me too. Weeks, even months seem to pass by in the bink of an eye.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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