German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis? - Page 5
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  1. #81

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    And what are you up to the next 18 years?

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  3. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Wake Forest, NC

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Pure Apis mellifera mellifera is a very calm bee, which has one an easy to notice distinctive quality: it runs like honey towards the bottom bar of the frame. When holding one long enough, they drop of. The bees on the video are most certainly not mellifera mellifera bees, which donīt have so wide white stripes.One another sign in the structure of the real black bee is the end of abdomen which is blunt (versus sharp).

    In this video (German languge) various "black bees" are considered whether they are pure or not. In this era of false information I consider the man in the video, Kai-Michael Engfer, very informative about the subject Apis mellifera mellifera, genuine black bee of Europe. There are some nice pictures, for instance about the amount and colour of the stripes. And as he notices the purity can be determined from the wing veins.
    The source of information he recommended:

    And once again: there is no such race as German black bee. German black bee is the name for a strain of black looking bees in US.
    Yes, Juhani Lunden, I have read that in reality the true/pure German black bees are actually a gentle bee. Not aggressive as what people commonly believe. I have suspected that the German black bees have gotten this bad reputation from misidentification of Spanish Black bees in the Southeastern US, that is if it is true what I suspect, that indeed it was the Spanish black bees that were the dominant subspecies in the Southeastern US before the introduction of the Italian bees.

    Spanish black bees are, from what I read aggressive, and nervous on the comb. They also are particularly susceptible to brood diseases, I have read.

    Actually the "German black bees" in the article I linked were said to be from Spain, and so they are Spanish black bees, not German black bees. At the time, Spanish Black bees were considered the same subspecies as the German blacks bees, Apis mellifera mellifera. Which makes sense when the article talks about the "German black bees" being an aggressive kind of bee. The climate would suit the Spanish black bees in California well, too, I think.

    Yes! I would like to try looking at the wing veins of bee colonies we have with narrow rings on abdomen. If the cubital index is negative, or close, then it would show the M lineage is truly in our bee colonies here in North Carolina. I have a microscope that was given to me by a friend. Are the Spanish black bees, like the German black bees, negative, on the cubital index? I will have to look up the cubital indexes for the different subspecies of bees again.

    The black bees in the Russian video I linked do have a lot of variation in their band thickness. I did wonder whether they had a percentage of Caucasian in them, especially because of their lead grey bands of hair that Caucasian bees are known to have, and because the Russians from what I have been reading seemed to praise the Caucasian bees as being great bees. But also, in that video there are a fair amount of them that have narrow bands on their abdomens, and still being lead grey banded in colour. I was thinking that maybe this Russian strain of A. m. mellifera had pale/lead grey bands of hair on their abdomens' naturally without Caucasian mixture. From what I have seen in pictures of A. m. mellifera from Western Europe, they are dull brown banded.

    Please watch again the bee on the dandelion at 3:15 in the video to see the thin, light grey rings of hair:

    This Russian strain of A. m. mellifera might have better brood disease resistance than the other strains of A. m. mellifera because of coming from a cold winter climate where they are cooped up in their hive for long periods of time without cleansing flights during winter. People should try them in Canada, or Alaska, and where you are in Finland. You did say though you have a mixture of A. m. mellifera in your genetics.
    Last edited by HaplozygousNut; 01-14-2020 at 08:00 PM.

  4. #83
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Boaz, KY, USA

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    The source of information he recommended:
    This is a great website, Juhani. The auto-translate function works very well too. There is quite a lot of good bee race information on the website beyond that of AMM.

    I watched the video and gleaned quite a bit from it despite the language barrier.

    Thank you for sharing the information.

    Ecclesiastes 11:4

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