German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Posts
    57

    Default German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    Does anyone have any thoughts on the actual bees introduced here in the Southeastern United States being Spanish Black bees instead of German Black bees? Spanish Black bees are similar to German Black bees, having narrow rings of hair on their abdomens' making the bees look glossy/shinny black rather than being fury/fuzzy grey like the Carniolans and Caucasian bees. The Spaniards were here in Florida before the British. The descriptions of the "German Black bees" from the Southeast US back in the older days sound very much like Spanish Black bees (brood disease problems, hive boiling out with nervous bees, aggressive, bad overwintering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_iberiensis). I am assuming that Spain has a dryer climate and so the Spanish black bees are not well adapted to going through wet winters, and so have brood diseases come up. In nature if an animal has sickness commonly, that is not good at all, and I believe it is not supposed to be that honey bees are weak and need us humans to keep them alive, but actually the problems of keeping bees are from bad beekeeping or a subspecies not well adapted to an area.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    Quote Originally Posted by HaplozygousNut View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the actual bees introduced here in the Southeastern United States being Spanish Black bees instead of German Black bees?
    There is no such bee race as German Black Bee.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Posts
    57

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    There is no such bee race as German Black Bee.
    Apis mellifera subspecies mellifera. European Black bee (AKA German Black bee) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dark_bee The first race of honey bee to be described, so it has kept its name in the subspecies rank. New subspecies of bees are given a different subspecies name, for example: Apis mellifera "yemenitica", and Apis mellifera "capensis" while the original bees described became Apis mellifera "mellifera" to distinguish between the other new subspecies discovered.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    1,118

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    You are talking about 500 years of evolution passing. Even with introduction, those not well adapted probably disappeared long ago except for maybe some recessive genes.
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,260

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    Ship's manifests were extremely detailed documents and absolutly nothing was loaded that did not go on the manifest. There are no surviving manifests indicating bee hives as cargo until the 1630's, on English ships coming to Jamestown. The early Spaniards would not have known that honey bees were not also present in the New World, thus they would not have brought them with until perhaps much later. Which sub-species of bees the settlers brought is open for debate.

    Virginia, home of the first imported honey bees in America!
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
    Posts
    1,763

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?


  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,260

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    It would be interesting to see if a similar study has ever been done on the M lineages, especially here in the south east.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    2,967

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    The feral black bees in the U.S. most likely were of Dutch origin. They would have been considered A. M. Mellifera.

    There are ship records of Iberian bees brought to South America. Some of them wound up in Mexico and eventually in the southwestern U.S.

    I have a note somewhere that the first record of bees on a ship manifest to the U.S. was in 1622. I have not tried to verify this though it is supposedly a readily available record.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  10. #9

    Default Re: German Black bees in the Southeastern US actually Apis mellifera iberiensis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion_power View Post
    The feral black bees in the U.S. most likely were of Dutch origin.

    I have a note somewhere that the first record of bees on a ship manifest to the U.S. was in 1622. I have not tried to verify this though it is supposedly a readily available record.
    In Ruttners book there is a picture from Am.Bee Journal 6/1991, page 369.

    Same year, 1622, but he writes " imported by English settlers".
    Last edited by Juhani Lunden; 05-24-2019 at 08:41 PM.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Greenwich, New York, USA
    Posts
    63

    Default

    I have spent time in Spain with the Iberian strain. They are unique and an ancient mix of the common European bee and an African mix brought by the Moors. They are large and aggressive. If they were introduced they would have disappeared by now.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •