Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Aug 2019
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    Otsego County, NY, USA
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    55

    Default Re: Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees

    When I closed my business I wanted some time to myself so I lived in St Petersburg for 6 months. Traveled to Russia many times previously and to many areas. It was just what I needed at the time. From my balcony I could see St Issacs dome and the spire of Peter and Paul. I was a 15 minute walk to the gulf of Finland.

    As far as bees, I'll stick with carnolians, at least for now.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees

    Quote Originally Posted by John_M View Post
    When I closed my business I wanted some time to myself so I lived in St Petersburg for 6 months. Traveled to Russia many times previously and to many areas. It was just what I needed at the time. From my balcony I could see St Issacs dome and the spire of Peter and Paul. I was a 15 minute walk to the gulf of Finland.

    As far as bees, I'll stick with carnolians, at least for now.
    Very good.
    You should have climbed the St Issacs dome to the top - I have.

    If you visited the Hermitage for several days and took your time to do it - about the best deal you have gotten from St. Pete, IMO.
    Anyways, St. Pete is not the coldest place in Russia by far (but weather overall about the crappiest or close to it, be it summer or winter).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees

    Wow, that is a lot of good information GregV. Thank you for clearing the mystery about A. m. remipes. I always assumed A. m. remipes was a synonym of the A. m. armeniaca or of A. m. caucasia because remipes was listed in the same range as the other subspecies that are better known or more information about online. It is that the altitudes that keep these distinct subspecies apart in the same area.

    About Apis mellifera pomonella. Here on Wikipedia it says that it is a synonym of Apis mellifera caucasia. Is this true? Were A. m. caucasia introduced to the Tien Shan mountains? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_honey_bee

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees

    Quote Originally Posted by John_M View Post
    When I closed my business I wanted some time to myself so I lived in St Petersburg for 6 months. Traveled to Russia many times previously and to many areas. It was just what I needed at the time. From my balcony I could see St Issacs dome and the spire of Peter and Paul. I was a 15 minute walk to the gulf of Finland.

    As far as bees, I'll stick with carnolians, at least for now.
    It could be that we have Carpathians, and Ukrainian bees here in the US, also, along with the Carniolan bees. That would make things more complicated on identifying which is which, them being similar kinds of bees. I read once in an article written by Susan Cobey in a bee journal that the bees in southern Poland were Carniolan bees. That is the Carpathian mountains she was talking about it seems to me. That would be the Carpathian bees. So I wonder if Susan Cobey has brought in those Carpathian bees as a part of her imports of sperm for her New World Carniolan breeding project thinking they were the same subspecies as Carniolans.

    It seems like Canada has or are importing Carpathian and Ukrainian bees:
    https://www.niagarabeeway.com/store/...Honey_Bee.html
    https://cutisproject.org/en/news/bee-exports/

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees

    Quote Originally Posted by HaplozygousNut View Post
    Wow, that is a lot of good information GregV. Thank you for clearing the mystery about A. m. remipes. I always assumed A. m. remipes was a synonym of the A. m. armeniaca or of A. m. caucasia because remipes was listed in the same range as the other subspecies that are better known or more information about online. It is that the altitudes that keep these distinct subspecies apart in the same area.

    About Apis mellifera pomonella. Here on Wikipedia it says that it is a synonym of Apis mellifera caucasia. Is this true? Were A. m. caucasia introduced to the Tien Shan mountains? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_honey_bee
    I don't know of Apis mellifera pomonella - don't care to google right now.
    Speaking of the Uzbekistan/Kirghistan/Kazakhstan - the Caucasians were widely imported there during Soviet times.
    Now being independent and somewhat isolated, I imagine they should have some very localized populations of bees developed (probably pretty darn good bees).

    Here, some of my worst bees doing capping like this.
    Looks like some Caucasian blood is mixed in - almost all solid wet cap.
    20190817_163311.jpg
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
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    74

    Default Re: Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees

    Quote Originally Posted by John_M View Post
    Regarding the climate in the caucaus region. In an around Sochi there are tea plantings. In March they showed some winter damage but not much at lower altitudes. I was suprised to find some tea fields high in the mountains north of the city, although they showed much more winter damage. Georgia is between the Caspian and Black Seas and so has weather moderated by both. On the coast of Crimea, in Sevastopal and Yalta, Palm trees have been planted and most seem to survive. In late December they were replacing trees that had been damaged. In early March in Sochi the weather was considerably warmer then here in New York (upstate),only a bit of snow in shaded north facing areas high in the mountains north of the city, and it was considerably warmer than Moscow.
    It's probably colder in the northern caucauses but I doubt that it gets as cold as we get here in New York. Russian's tend to be overly proud of how brutal their winters are, but in my experience of northern European Russia it is no colder than here and they don't get as much snow as here, at least in my experience. Siberia is another story, it's brutal.
    People do not commonly know this, but as it gets colder it tends to get dryer, so less snow when winter gets colder. So more snow does not actually mean that it is a colder climate, it could mean the opposite... Dry snow is dusty/powdery and light in weight and will not make good snowmen or snowballs. But in Canada even though it is cold I see that on the Koppen Climate map that it is moist while Siberia is dry. I guess you can't predict that colder means less snow for sure either.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
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    74

    Default Re: Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    I don't know of Apis mellifera pomonella - don't care to google right now.
    Speaking of the Uzbekistan/Kirghistan/Kazakhstan - the Caucasians were widely imported there during Soviet times.
    Now being independent and somewhat isolated, I imagine they should have some very localized populations of bees developed (probably pretty darn good bees).

    Here, some of my worst bees doing capping like this.
    Looks like some Caucasian blood is mixed in - almost all solid wet cap.
    20190817_163311.jpg
    Same with the several colonies we have that I think have good percentage of Caucasian, all the cappings are "wet". Still they are not full Caucasians because of lighter coloration mixed in the workers, and during strong nectar flows instead of syrup feeding they might make "dry" cappings also, I will have to see next year how they cap, dry or wet. Mating in summer after our nectar flows are finished may mate more Caucasian bees... will have to do it more to see if it is consistent.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
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    2,702

    Default Re: Distinguishing between Carniolan and Caucasian honey bees

    Quote Originally Posted by HaplozygousNut View Post
    ..... as it gets colder it tends to get dryer, so less snow when winter gets colder. .....
    Yes.
    Inner Russia gets more continental - less snow and lower temperatures.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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