Check out this nuc - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Feb 2012
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Quote Originally Posted by ifixoldhouses View Post
    there was one frame with some open nectar, but still totally empty comb frames.
    Subjectively, open brood seems to kick a queen into gear. I would not invest more than an ouside frame with a little brood on that nuc though.

    Scratch the honey if you have not, and I would feed more.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

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  3. #22
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    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Wow, just saw the original video. WTF? At a bare minimum, you should have gotten at least ONE frame that was solid capped brood and two other that were capped and open brood. Another frame should have been honey and pollen and the last could have been empty comb, or in my case, a frame the bees were in the process of drawing out. Like Dan, I am a BYOB nuc seller and the customer sees what is going in his equipment. I also make sure they see the queen, which is usually on the frame with the eggs and open brood. That nuc looked like one of my FAILED walk away splits! If you are sure you have a queen, throw a piece of pollen patty on the top bars and turn the inner cover over to provide the space. There were a fair number of bees in the box, but that did not at all look like an organized and thriving colony, which is what a nuc should be.

    It also would not hurt to put in a frame of eggs and open brood from another colony if you can spare them, even if you do have a queen.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #23
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    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
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    1,222

    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    They don't need eggs they need sealed brood with emerging bees and food stores. Just looks like a really weak nuc. Little stores, scattered brood, low population and questionable queen perhaps. Why did you add another box? I would have just added an empty box and placed a jar of feed right on top.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
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    243

    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    It had brood on the frame that I put in there, it as hatched out, I tried the pollen patty, barely touched it, threw it away after 4-5 days, they drank all the sugar syrup twice, added another box in hopes of getting frames drawn out.
    I'm getting ready to make 3 splits, I have six 8 frame deeps, packed with sealed brood, ordered 3 OHB Saskatraz Queens, I can probably beef up the nuc a lil while I'm at it.
    Last edited by ifixoldhouses; 05-27-2019 at 01:52 PM.
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
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  6. #25
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    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Riskybizz, the open brood and eggs is to help keep the hive from going laying worker as much as to boost the numbers, provide fresh nurse bees, and give them an opportunity to requeen if necessary. The original post was May 8th, so we are fast approaching the point where the hive could go LW and then be a lost cause. I agree that the top box needs to go. Too much space, not enough bees.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    1,444

    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Most nucs, from what I gather, are random frames of brood and comb taken from various colonies with an introduced queen from a mating nuc. Aren't most nucs, especially, "Bring Your Own Box," short on foragers?
    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
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    Winston-Salem, NC
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    243

    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Quote Originally Posted by AHudd View Post
    Most nucs, from what I gather, are random frames of brood and comb taken from various colonies with an introduced queen from a mating nuc. Aren't most nucs, especially, "Bring Your Own Box," short on foragers?
    Alex
    My dad dropped the box off in the morning, the guy packed it up, and he picked it up in the evening, it probably wasn't the same nuc he was shown earlier, and he didn't really know what he was looking at.
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
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  9. #28
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    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Quote Originally Posted by AHudd View Post
    Most nucs, from what I gather, are random frames of brood and comb taken from various colonies with an introduced queen from a mating nuc. Aren't most nucs, especially, "Bring Your Own Box," short on foragers?
    Alex
    That is not how I make my nucs. They are either an overwintered nuc or frames and a queen selected from a parent hive which is then left to requeen itself. I am not a commercial nuc producer, nor do I wish to be. My goal is 40 per year at this point, so I can afford to be more "hands on".

    And yes, a fair number of foragers are lost to the nuc, but not all. In a week's time it makes no difference. What is important is that within two weeks, the bee population has doubled from all the emerging brood. In ifixoldhouse's case, I dont think that has happened.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  10. #29
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    Mar 2015
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    I didn't mean to imply that is a bad thing, quite the opposite, but I don't think they are a thriving colony at that point because of the imbalance which gets a little worse for about a week while waiting for the brood to emerge, especially in a cool climate.
    I wasn't denigrating the method only that I don't agree with your characterization of what a nuc should be. This> "not at all look like an organized and thriving colony, which is what a nuc should be". Maybe I'm wrong.

    Ifixoldhouses;I watched the video just now and I got the impression that those frames came from a hive suffering from PMS. I would treat for mites unless you are TF of course.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  11. #30
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    Mar 2015
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    And I also am talking about what a customer should expect from a commercial nuc supplier.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  12. #31
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    Feb 2019
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
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    243

    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    I did an OAV treatment on them once.
    here's that video I refered too earlier with a nuc that has 3 empty foundation frames in it, comes from a site sponsor here it seems, I believe my sorry nuc is better than that. No where in the same ballpark as my first two nucs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mnI0ECQEZ4
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
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  13. #32
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    Feb 2012
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Couldn't finish watching that.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  14. #33
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    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    I guess when I open up a can of worms, I go ahead and dump them out too. I'll break it down so you see where I am coming from. Three frames of brood with adhearing bees, about 6k bees. One frame of honey/pollen with adhering foragers, around another 1500 bees. Typical ratio in a thriving hive is 25% foragers 75% house bees during build up. So the numbers are not that far off. As the brood emerges, around 10,000 bees or more, a greater number of the house bees are elevated to forager, just like when the flow is on, and the ratios quickly balance again, an organized hive. But that is what I do, not what I believe many commercial nuc producers do. If it was, I doubt anyone would get a nuc until mid-June. To be fair to all, I have only purchased ONE nuc. It was explained to me by the seller, then our club president, what should comprise a nuc. I have adhered to that definition and I believe that what I produce more closely matches Ifoh's expectations too. But seriously, a nuc that weighs 100#s? As Kamon just demonstrated, a 10 frame deep full of honey only weighs in at 75#s.
    I am not even sure what to call the "nucs" in the last video. 4 framers with only partially drawn foundation, little patches of brood, and hardly any bees? Nucs in the making at best. If I was selling those, I could double my output overnight.
    Last edited by JWPalmer; 05-27-2019 at 04:01 PM.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  15. #34
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    Feb 2019
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    Winston-Salem, NC
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    I guess when I open up a can of worms, I go ahead and dump them out too. I'll break it down so you see where I am coming from. Three frames of brood with adhearing bees, about 6k bees. One frame of honey/pollen with adhering foragers, around another 1500 bees. Typical ratio in a thriving hive is 25% foragers 75% house bees during build up. So the numbers are not that far off. As the brood emerges, around 10,000 bees or more, a greater number of the house bees are elevated to forager, just like when the flow is on, and the ratios quickly balance again, an organized hive. But that is what I do, not what I believe many commercial nuc producers do. If it was, I doubt anyone would get a nuc until mid-June. To be fair to all, I have only purchased ONE nuc. It was explained to me by the seller, then our club president, what should comprise nuc. I have adhered to that definition and I believe that what I produce more closely matches Ifoh's expectations too. But seriously, a nuc that weighs 100#s? As Kamon just demonstrated, a 10 frame deep full of honey only weighs in at 75#s.
    I am even sure what to call the "nucs" in the last video. 4 framers with only partially drawn foundation, little patches of brood, and hardly any bees? Nucs in the making at best. If I was selling those, I could double my output overnight.
    Those were $200 nucs too We finally figured my two nucs weighed 35 lbs. each, still very heavy., skip to the end of that video, to see the nucs.
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
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  16. #35

    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    But that is what I do, not what I believe many commercial nuc producers do.
    I think it is like so many other things. Those producers who have good reputations consistently supply quality nucs. There’s a fellow up the road who does several thousand every spring. His are always exceptional.

    It pays to ask for recommendations
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  17. #36
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    Apr 2017
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    I am enjoying this discussion. I hope everyone else is too. After much contemplation and a few beers, I am modifying my suggestion. Remove the empty box of frames and the frame feeder. Replace the two drawn but otherwise empty frames with one frame of capped brood and one marked frame of eggs and open brood. Place the brood frames in the center of the box. Use an inverted mason jar feeder set directly on the bars of the frames with a small (2"×2") piece of pollen sub patty next to it. Cover with the other box and lid. Come back in five days and look at the marked frame. If no queen cells started, check the other frames for eggs. If no eggs, remove another frame and try once more by giving a frame of eggs. If that does not work and there is still no laying queen or queen cells, shake them out in front of the nucs you had already made and let them beg their way into a hive.

    With a nod to riskybizz' contribution to the discussion.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  18. #37
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    Feb 2019
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    Winston-Salem, NC
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    sounds good, I'm going to take the queen cell in there now and put it in a mating nuc, the old man that sold them told my dad, that they supposedly survived 3 years by themselves while someone was out of town, and this queen was from that line.
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
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  19. #38
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    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Don't be suprised if that cell turns out to be a dud. I do not put much faith in qc's that are not surrounded by other healthy brood. But see what happens. Ya never know.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  20. #39
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    May 2014
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    Sedgwick Co. KS
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    The portion of the videos that I watched makes me feel sorry for all the bees. All I can think of is that there is more money than sense here.

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Check out this nuc

    Quote Originally Posted by AHudd View Post
    I got the impression that those frames came from a hive suffering from PMS.
    Alex
    I was thinking severely robbed for a long time. That tattered old frame looked like the wax had been stripped off leaving only the cocoons. When they have been robbed for a long time they will let anybody walk in. Syrup in the top, syrup out the door does not build up stores.

    I failed to mention; close all but a tiny opening.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

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