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Thread: EFB options

  1. #61
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by WesternWilson View Post
    Last year of 8 hives treated this way, 6 rebloomed with EFB. I suspect some of the EFB strains are becoming oxytet resistant.
    how long after shook swarming and treatment with oxytet did it take for the efb to rebloom?

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    how long after shook swarming and treatment with oxytet did it take for the efb to rebloom?
    Within a week. It was really demoralizing. And so the other risk in remediation is....if the pathogen is resistant the entire time you have that colony under remediation it is a disease risk. So if you can, do all this in a remote hospital/quarantine yard outside the flight range of other apiaries.

    Also be aware that shook swarming is a big deal...bees in the air, pandemonium. So the risk here is that some of the disrupted infected bees drift into nearby hives. If there is nectar in the frames you will shower nectar all over too...how safe is that nectar? Not very.

    One local mobile pollination operator told me that they medicate constantly to suppress the foulbroods as they cannot afford the time, labour and expense of dealing with sick bees. Unfortunately this drives resistance and then takes it on the road.

  4. #63
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by WesternWilson View Post
    Within a week. It was really demoralizing.
    crap. did you apply the oxytet in syrup or sprinkle powder? how much, how often, and how long?


    Quote Originally Posted by WesternWilson View Post
    One local mobile pollination operator told me that they medicate constantly to suppress the foulbroods...
    that has been common practice around here for decades even with smaller stationary beekeepers. prophylactic antibiotics given when coming out of winter and then again after honey supers get removed.

    this practice is now forbidden in the u.s. although one wonders if a lot of antibiotics got stockpiled in advance of the directive; and if many have stopped prophylactic antibiotics, that more and more cases of efb and afb will be 'coming out of the woodwork' so to speak.

    also wondering if packages coming from suppliers who previously medicated prophylactically have the potential to introduce pathogens into populations were they haven't been before.

  5. #64
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post

    this practice is now forbidden in the u.s. although one wonders if a lot of antibiotics got stockpiled in advance of the directive; and if many have stopped prophylactic antibiotics, that more and more cases of efb and afb will be 'coming out of the woodwork' so to speak.
    stockpiled, Tractor Supply couldn't keep it in stock, the lady said every store around here would sell out the day it came in. Well as I said the people that I know that have had it, never treated but there are so many beeks around it could come from any where. I would think a good place to find out that information would be to ask beltsville, they sent an email to my friend to say he had it, and also sent an email to the state of NY, so their records b/4 and after the ban should show an increase. Problem is most larger beeks just take care of it and never report it.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  6. #65
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    Default Re: EFB options

    I dosed immediately, apiary wide, with oxytet in icing sugar on the top bars to get a dose into them quickly. Then in syrup as per the package directions. Then turned the bees out onto bare equipment, then redosed in syrup. As soon as there was brood and no medication, 6 showed symptoms again and tested positive.

    I considered stockpiling oxytet but decided not to. When I considered my options, euthanasia was the least expensive response and had the added benefit of limiting spread into my other bees. Of course that is hard to stick to when you are looking at losing all your bees. My apiary is still not clear.

  7. #66
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    Default Re: EFB options

    "efb sucks"

    a quote from beesource's beloved enjambres

  8. #67
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    Didn’t think I would end up lurking on my own thread, but glad for the discussion!

    I realize time is of the essence with this, but I haven’t been able to move as quick as I wanted on this. I’ve isolated this hive, and with a strong flow, I don’t think robbing will be a problem, nearest vet is a half hour drive, they want me to register with their practice, and they require an inspection from their staff. Then I’d still have to order the meds. All a bridge too far for a weak hive, I’m going to euthanize.

    Attaching a bunch of pictures of what I found tonight. Didn’t see any dried up scales in the cells, they were cleaned out and had fresh eggs in them. The infected larvae had their heads turned up, and blackened starting at the head and working its way down. What do you think?
    Mistakes are the best taechers

  9. #68
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    I scraped open a few areas of capped brood. Some were alive, some were not.
    Mistakes are the best taechers

  10. #69
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    I’m going to order some test kits tonight or tomorrow.

    Man, I don’t want to burn my equipment. I’ve got a scrap oven in the garage, what about cutting the combs out and baking the boxes and frames on a tray at about 275 for a while. If nothing else, after a few hours and some basting, it should pull nicely and go on a bun.
    Mistakes are the best taechers

  11. #70
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by Beebeard View Post
    I’m going to order some test kits tonight or tomorrow.


    not many of my affected larvae made it to the stage that your black headed ones did. most died while still a small c shape looking like the one in the lower left corner of your #5 photo in post #67, and many of these turned yellow. my capped brood patterns looked about the same with less than half making it to capping stage.

  12. #71
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    Default Re: EFB options

    I've thought a few times that putting my bees in all new equipment over the last 3 years was a good idea. This thread emphasizes one of the reasons.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  13. #72
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by Beebeard View Post

    Attaching a bunch of pictures of what I found tonight. Didnít see any dried up scales in the cells, they were cleaned out and had fresh eggs in them. The infected larvae had their heads turned up, and blackened starting at the head and working its way down. What do you think?
    Those blackened larvae do not look like anything I have seen. In my usual EFB the larvae twist up, yellow and die, rotting down quickly into a a gelatinous greyish-yellow goo. If it is EFB then it appears to be a slightly different strain than I see.

    Beebeard I would post to BEE-L and see if anyone can give you feedback on this. Bag up some samples of affected larvae and send them off to the lab? It will be interesting to see the results of your test kits.

  14. #73
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    Default Re: EFB options

    looks like sacbrood...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beebeard View Post
    I scraped open a few areas of capped brood. Some were alive, some were not.
    DavidZ

  15. #74
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Has anyone done a mite wash on these colonies?
    Feeding early patties. https://youtu.be/bUDd3vk7bgY

  16. #75
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee's Bees LLC View Post
    Has anyone done a mite wash on these colonies?
    i have but it was after euthanizing so i'm not sure what that means. counts are in the 1 - 2% percent range.

  17. #76
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    could this be the video you are referring to lharder?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0B9...ature=youtu.be

    (highly recommended viewing to anyone wanting to get up to speed on efb, and my starting point for further inquiry into some of the ground covered in the video)
    That presentation was wonderful. Thanks for posting that.

    I was more than a bit shocked at how frequently the foulbroods rebloom in apiaries, even after clearing infected colonies and equipment. I know a vaccine for AFB is in the research stage, hope one can be developed for EFB as well. They cannot arrive soon enough...

  18. #77
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by Beebeard View Post
    Didn’t think I would end up lurking on my own thread, but glad for the discussion!

    I realize time is of the essence with this, but I haven’t been able to move as quick as I wanted on this. I’ve isolated this hive, and with a strong flow, I don’t think robbing will be a problem, nearest vet is a half hour drive, they want me to register with their practice, and they require an inspection from their staff. Then I’d still have to order the meds. All a bridge too far for a weak hive, I’m going to euthanize.

    Attaching a bunch of pictures of what I found tonight. Didn’t see any dried up scales in the cells, they were cleaned out and had fresh eggs in them. The infected larvae had their heads turned up, and blackened starting at the head and working its way down. What do you think?
    It looks like sacbrood:
    • Cells with punctured cappings scattered throughout sealed brood.
    • Larva will be upright, sac-like and stretched out in cell.
    • A tough leathery membrane makes larva easy to remove from cells.
    • Larvae turn from white, grey, yellow to brown and then black with the head end darker.
    • Infected larvae do not*adhere to cell walls.
    Proverbs 16:24

  19. #78
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    Default Re: EFB options

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee's Bees LLC View Post
    Has anyone done a mite wash on these colonies?
    If you are suggesting that the larval deaths were from Varroasis, fair point...that is why confirming a foulbrood diagnosis must be done with the test kit. Then you know, not hope, that you are dealing with something easily remediable.

  20. #79
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    Test kit ordered.

    When I first noticed a problem, there was a bad smell coming from the hive. First inspection showed a lot of dead brood in various stages. Seemed like it was affecting the bigger “c” shaped larvae. I saw some that looked like the royal jelly was yellowish. The dead larvae were slumping down in the cells and some seemed gooey, but most retained their shape. Lots of them had that same black pointed head look. The smell is gone now and there doesn’t seem to be as many dead ones, but still plenty as the pictures show.
    It’s not good, whatever it is.
    Mistakes are the best taechers

  21. #80
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    Default Re: EFB options

    did it smell sour or smell ammonia like(efb) or sulphur(afb)? Odour or smell is not a reliable diagnostic tool because some cases of AFB have no discernible smell at all.
    have you tried the toothpick test to check for stickiness. ie rope length.
    hope you figure this out soon so you can take measures against the infection.

    still, it looks like sacbrood to me.
    Last edited by Apis Natural; 05-15-2019 at 11:36 AM.
    DavidZ

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