Entrance Reducers - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    NW Florida
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    1,172

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Kraut View Post
    They evaporate the water by moving air over it.

    So please explain your 'can't control it' assertion.

    Thanks
    Too much of an opening and it is hard to direct the air flow. Educated guess.
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    The entrance reducer/ventilation issue is moot if you use screened bottoms like I do. Robber screens stay on the nucs year round and hives run at the 4" setting until it gets cold. I do not get the severe bearding that is often seen when a hive is having trouble staying cool in the summer.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Jackson, Ohio (SE Ohio) USA
    Posts
    817

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    The entrance reducer/ventilation issue is moot if you use screened bottoms like I do. Robber screens stay on the nucs year round and hives run at the 4" setting until it gets cold. I do not get the severe bearding that is often seen when a hive is having trouble staying cool in the summer.
    +1

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Jacksonville, Morgan County, IL
    Posts
    205

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadeguppy View Post
    Too much of an opening and it is hard to direct the air flow. Educated guess.
    Let's let the person who made that statement explain his reasoning behind it.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,942

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    >So please explain your 'can't control it' assertion.

    The "assertion" is quite easy to prove simply by providing infinite ventilation. Pull a frame out on a 100 F day and the comb rapidly gets soft and falls. Because they can't cool it. Leave it in the hive and it doesn't exceed 95 F. Whenever the temperature outside exceed the normal temperature for the brood nest, the bees cool the hive to temperatures cooler than the ambient temperature. Obviously far too much ventilation raises the temperature to the ambient temperature. If you cool your house with a swarm cooler (water evaporation cooler) then you don't open all the windows or you can't cool it at all.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,975

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by genusCastor View Post
    ... I wonder if a natural hive (in the wild) might select a more open ("airier") location to set up housekeeping ...
    Ah - the recurring "Natural Tree-Nest" scenario ...

    Tree nests are invariably found where limb damage occurs from time to time - i.e. in woods and forests. Such dense arboreal settings are notably cool in summer, thanks to the shade provided by the overhead canopy ...

    ... except in tropical rain-forests, of course, where conditions can get quite oppressive !
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    2,819

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Ah yes, the tropical forest where the Giant Honey Bee makes open nests, and cools the comb with no cavity, no entrance reduction to help control ventilation, just combs cooled by water evaporated on the surface by wings moving air across the surface.
    42 + years - 24 colonies - IPM disciple - Naturally Skeptic

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,951

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanInNJ View Post
    What are some guidelines about when to use entrance reducers? Do you leave your hive entrances wide open in late spring/summer?
    I have been playing with the top/bottom entrance comparisons (there is a topic with pictures in the Equipment).
    Pretty much concluded - for all weak colonies in spring, I plug ALL but the most upper entrance.
    I plug the entrances using paper and as the colonies grow up, they unplug what they need themselves (they do it from top to the bottom).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    1,172

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >So please explain your 'can't control it' assertion.

    The "assertion" is quite easy to prove simply by providing infinite ventilation. Pull a frame out on a 100 F day and the comb rapidly gets soft and falls. Because they can't cool it. Leave it in the hive and it doesn't exceed 95 F. Whenever the temperature outside exceed the normal temperature for the brood nest, the bees cool the hive to temperatures cooler than the ambient temperature. Obviously far too much ventilation raises the temperature to the ambient temperature. If you cool your house with a swarm cooler (water evaporation cooler) then you don't open all the windows or you can't cool it at all.
    Exactly, no way to control the flow of air in and out. Just big openings. I can stick a fan at the edge of the garage in the summer, but it won't do much good for the actual temperature in the garage. Reminds me of parents yelling that we aren't trying to air-condition the outside.
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    East TX
    Posts
    66

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    If you cool your house with a swarm cooler (water evaporation cooler) then you don't open all the windows or you can't cool it at all.
    We call'em swamp coolers, but seems to be a good analogy if bees are "conditioning" the hive interior. I just thought they were trying to get a breeze going through their house.

    Where am I on the learning curve...? lol

    - djb
    The best things in life aren't things.
    2 hives, started 2018

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
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    2,819

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    gC; I would say you are close on the learning curve. Bees don't "condition" the inside of the hive, they only worry about cooling the comb surface and the air inside of the cells. They can do this using only the air moved over the surface of the comb by their wings.

    Bees fanning move air in the hive at an average of 220 to 250 cubic feet per minute, hot air in and the "conditioned" air out. The "conditioned" air is not able to cool anything, the only cooling is done at the surface of the comb and the cell entrances by evaporating the water placed there by the bees.
    42 + years - 24 colonies - IPM disciple - Naturally Skeptic

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by AR Beekeeper View Post
    gC; I would say you are close on the learning curve. Bees don't "condition" the inside of the hive, they only worry about cooling the comb surface and the air inside of the cells. They can do this using only the air moved over the surface of the comb by their wings.

    Bees fanning move air in the hive at an average of 220 to 250 cubic feet per minute, hot air in and the "conditioned" air out. The "conditioned" air is not able to cool anything, the only cooling is done at the surface of the comb and the cell entrances by evaporating the water placed there by the bees.
    Oh yay, somebody understands how it works. The moisture laden "conditioned" air must be removed and more of the warm dryer air must be brought in. The faster this exchange takes place, the cooler the temps that can be achieved, up to a point.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,942

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    If they are just cooling the surface of the comb it certainly doesn't work on a hot day when I'm inspecting... because the heat is often the cause of a comb collapse. I can do the same inspection early in the morning when it's cool with no issues. But not in the heat. Yes, they have to remove the moist air so they can evaporate more water. That is always the issue. They need control over the situation to accomplish that without warming it more than they cooled it.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
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    3,951

    Default Re: Entrance Reducers

    Quote Originally Posted by AR Beekeeper View Post
    ... Bees don't "condition" the inside of the hive .......
    In builder's terms - "conditioning" includes both cooling and heating, and more.

    That is - bringing the internal volume of a structure to the optimal temp/humidity and maintaining it there - whatever it takes to get there - goes (cooling/heating/dehumidifying/humidifying/ventilating).
    This is what bees do during the active period - they do whatever it takes (raise/drop temperature; raise/drop humidity; increase ventilation/decrease ventilation).

    For example, right now the bees around my place are actually heatingthe hives because it is windy 45F but yet the hives are full of brood about wall-to-wall and must be kept warm inside - that is also "conditioning".
    So that is all - "conditioning" and yes - requires maximum control of the enclosure.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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