Some misc Nicot chat ... - Page 2
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 50
  1. #21

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    The best way to use it, is to use a drawn comb and cut a section out of it, insert the cage. In my trials I, too, let them build the comb themselves. But that is not a good idea. Better insert it into an existing comb. Preferably from the same hive.



    In my second trial I even harvested more cells with larvae than I remembered.



    Became some nice cells.







    And nice queens out of the Nicot cage.




    Still grafting is much easier, less complicated and you can do more queens in less time and with less effort.
    #
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,550

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    My Jenter is always in the middle of drawn comb and I often put it in the middle of the brood nest and get that somewhat laid up before I confine the queen in the box. I put it between frames of open brood. If I do all of that, I don't have issues with them removing larvae. The Jenter, of course has all the cells available for the queen to lay, in the box. I just has plugs in one in four.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,187

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    In the original Patent, the author comments that bees will draw comb around the laying cage, but there's no suggestion I can see there that it's considered by him to be of any importance.

    Likewise in a German video "Koniging in Nicot-Kafig" (assumed to be successful - although ... ?), this initial comb-drawing can also be observed.



    But - like you guys - installing in an existing comb is exactly what I'm going to try this year - hopefully this will cure my long run of failures.

    I agree about grafting being more straightforward - one of the problems with using laying cages is the logistics of timing vs. unpredictable weather - Sod's Law says that on the day you're due to pull those 24hr old larvae, it'll be bucketing down ...
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    1,118

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    I'm wondering if the queen will lay in the cups without being caged up. Has anyone tried it? Wax or something similar would need used to help hold in the cells.
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,187

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadeguppy View Post
    I'm wondering if the queen will lay in the cups without being caged up. Has anyone tried it? Wax or something similar would need used to help hold in the cells.
    The problem there would be that the Nicot cell-cups themselves are of a larger diameter than the 'tubes' onto which they fit - so the queen would almost certainly lay unfertilised (drone) eggs in them. Otherwise - not a bad idea. A kind of variation on cell-punching - but without actually punching.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Stoke on trent,UK
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    Extra hygienic bees may not like eggs in plastic cells: may not "smell" right - which I believe is how the hygiene factor works.. But WDIK

  8. #27
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Skaneateles, NY
    Posts
    898

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    i was really hoping this NICOT system would work since my grafting skills are not all that. Having said that i thought i had butchered the graft this past thursday but have over 75% acceptance which im shocked by. Im sure as one's grafting technique improves its a reliable and fast way to generate queen cells. I would say it took me about 45 mins start to finish including pulling the eggs/larvae frame, grafting 40 odd larvae and reinserting grafting frame back into the cell builder and as i said my skills are fairly shaky at best.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sacramento County, CA
    Posts
    867

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    As mentioned before, after trying Nicot system for two years in a row with horrific results, we switched to grafting. We went from a less than 10% success rate [Nicot] to 95% success rate [grafting].

    Example: In early March we experimented with a super early graft and experienced 19/20 successes [mated, machine gunner laying queens]. Later March grafting was again a high 95% success rate.

    We are now grafting 96-140 queen cells at a time with a high 95+% success rate. We hope to move to 200-300 queen cells per graft soon.

    Other factors to consider:

    1. We have super strong and super healthy drone congregation areas [DCA's].
    2. We are grafting ONLY from one absolutely incredible queen [this queen is far better than any queen we have ever had in years].
    3. We are feeding all nucs with both syrup and pollen sub AND have a good nectar/pollen flow.
    4. Temps in March were quite low with lots of rain, temps now are ideal.
    5. Grafting has become incredibly easy after grafting hundreds upon hundreds of larvae.
    6. Use both Cloakeboard method as well as the super queen raising method, but leaning now to ONLY the super queen raising method.
    7. We pray before each graft, asking God for His super natural help.

    In one bee yard, in 12 weeks, we went from 23 healthy colonies to 175 healthy colonies and by mid June, at this rate, we should be over 300 colonies in this yard.

    Nicot in my mind equates to NEVER AGAIN!

    Learn to graft, and you will never go back to NICOT ever again!

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,101

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    I am going to give the Nicot system one more try in about two weeks. This time, I am going to use it in one of my top bar hives instead of one of the Langstroth hive. I will document the entire process and post the results here when done.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,187

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    But - like you guys - installing in an existing comb is exactly what I'm going to try this year - hopefully this will cure my long run of failures.
    An update ...

    I installed a new Nicot Laying Cage into a frame which had an old black comb, but after so many years of persistent failures I didn't have too much confidence in doing this, and so placed the cage into the brood nest of a 'Grade II' colony as a test. Although the cage had been 'pre-conditioned' for some time beforehand, it still took 4 days before the queen finally consented to lay eggs - and was then duly released.

    Much to my surprise, 3 days later there were larvae present ! This was the very first time that the Nicot system has ever produced the goods for me. But - because of my lack of confidence I hadn't prepared a suitable starter colony, and so the cell-bars were simply placed over a Cloake Board in the nearest spare colony without any preparation, as I'm not planning to keep any of the queens which might result this time - but nevertheless a handful of q/cells have indeed been started.

    Of course raising queens wasn't the objective here, just the obtaining of larvae. So I'll be repeating this procedure in the next day or two - but with a 'Grade I' queen this time, and see if it works ok again or whether that was just a lucky fluke, as what I'm looking for is a reliable system. But - so far, so good.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Isle of Wight, VA
    Posts
    2,748

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    I've used it in my topbar hives, but it is not my preferred way to get queen cells. I do like grafting into the brown cups and having the ability to put the roller cages over the ready to emerge virgins

    IMG_5544.jpg

    IMG_5545.jpg

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,101

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dudelt View Post
    I am going to give the Nicot system one more try in about two weeks. This time, I am going to use it in one of my top bar hives instead of one of the Langstroth hive. I will document the entire process and post the results here when done.
    I started my attempt on Friday. I put the cage into the top bar hive (without the queen excluder face) and let it "cure" for 3 days. When I pulled it out today, it was covered with bees so hopefully, they warmed it up really well. Today at 3:00pm I captured the queen and placed her into the cage. I could not get her to walk out of the queen catcher and through the hole in the queen excluder face so I pulled the face off and placed her on the unit and put the face back on. That took only 15 seconds compared to the 10 minutes I tried to get her through the hole. There were lots of bees on the unit with her when I closed her in. I will check it on Friday and see If I have any eggs or larvae.

    Wish me luck.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,187

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dudelt View Post
    Wish me luck.
    Certainly do

    My second 'run' with the genuine Nicot L/Cage installed in comb produced 8 larvae - hardly the basis for celebration, but shows that eggs are now being left to hatch - with the egg-removal problem being replaced by an obstinate reluctance to lay eggs in the first place. So - I've painted wax onto the face-plate, dripped honey into the cells and pre-conditioned that L/Cage yet again (*). Started the third run yesterday.

    FWIW, I've never used the introduction hole, but have always placed the queen directly onto the open matrix, and then swiftly attached the QX cover. If the queen is a youngster (not the best age to use), then I've misted a little plain water over her wings to prevent the making of a dash for freedom.

    So - good luck to us both ...
    LJ

    (*) The 'official' advice is:
    "Put it several months in the middle of the brood without queen excluder (if you don't use it, keep it in the brood, the smell of the queen will make more easily the next egg laying)."
    Several months ? Does anyone actually do this ? And as for keeping it in the brood nest - this will most likely cause brace comb to be drawn, and implies that there should be one Laying Cage per chosen breeder queen. That doesn't sound too realistic to me.
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,220

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    I'm playing with the nicot as well as grafting. One question on the nicot that all videos do not make clear. How long do you leave the cups in the nicot? For example, If you check the next day and there are all eggs in the cups and you release the queen. Do you let them sit until they are the appropriate grafting age and look like a comma? Or do you move them over as eggs and wait to see if the bees will accept them?
    Terrence

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,550

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    >Do you let them sit until they are the appropriate grafting age and look like a comma? Or do you move them over as eggs and wait to see if the bees will accept them?

    Go ahead and try them both. My experience is they will just remove all the eggs.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,187

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kaizen View Post
    If you check the next day and there are all eggs in the cups and you release the queen. Do you let them sit until they are the appropriate grafting age and look like a comma? Or do you move them over as eggs and wait to see if the bees will accept them?
    The problem with moving eggs is that they have the smell of the laying queen on them - so if you were using the same colony for drawing the q/cells it might be ok - but if you're using a separate starter, then as MB says, they'll most likely remove the eggs as being foreign to them. Once an egg hatches, it's outer membrane dissolves and is (presumably) incorporated into the RJ, so any remaining trace of pheromone becomes so diluted it effectively disappears.

    So - as I understand it - best practice is to release the queen as soon as eggs are identified, and the Laying Cage returned to the same position for 3 days. I've been removing the QX during that period to make life easier for the nurses.

    Quick update - I pulled between 6 and 8 sample cell-cups (wasn't counting) this morning, and each of them had an egg in - so it looks like painting wax on the face-plate did the trick (presumably by disguising any plastic smell) - so I'll leave Her Majesty in place until the end of play today (another 4 hours or so) - and then release her.

    I've got two powerful Cloake Board set-ups waiting for these larvae, and a small Joseph Clemens Queenless Starter-Finisher which is a bit thin on nurse bees right now as I only set it up yesterday. With two full frames of emerging brood, and more to come - it should be ready to use in a week or so, but I'll give it some of these larvae (touch wood) and see how they get on.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,220

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >Do you let them sit until they are the appropriate grafting age and look like a comma? Or do you move them over as eggs and wait to see if the bees will accept them?

    Go ahead and try them both. My experience is they will just remove all the eggs.
    Does this apply to normal grafting as well? I pulled a frame the other night and practiced grafting but they were still eggs that had laid down......so maybe a day short of larvae. Probably the reason it was so hard!! Will the queenless colony just remove those?
    Terrence

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,220

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    The problem with moving eggs is that they have the smell of the laying queen on them - so if you were using the same colony for drawing the q/cells it might be ok - but if you're using a separate starter, then as MB says, they'll most likely remove the eggs as being foreign to them. Once an egg hatches, it's outer membrane dissolves and is (presumably) incorporated into the RJ, so any remaining trace of pheromone becomes so diluted it effectively disappears.

    So - as I understand it - best practice is to release the queen as soon as eggs are identified, and the Laying Cage returned to the same position for 3 days. I've been removing the QX during that period to make life easier for the nurses.

    Quick update - I pulled between 6 and 8 sample cell-cups (wasn't counting) this morning, and each of them had an egg in - so it looks like painting wax on the face-plate did the trick (presumably by disguising any plastic smell) - so I'll leave Her Majesty in place until the end of play today (another 4 hours or so) - and then release her.

    I've got two powerful Cloake Board set-ups waiting for these larvae, and a small Joseph Clemens Queenless Starter-Finisher which is a bit thin on nurse bees right now as I only set it up yesterday. With two full frames of emerging brood, and more to come - it should be ready to use in a week or so, but I'll give it some of these larvae (touch wood) and see how they get on.
    LJ
    got it. Makes sense.
    Terrence

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,550

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    >Does this apply to normal grafting as well? I pulled a frame the other night and practiced grafting but they were still eggs that had laid down......so maybe a day short of larvae. Probably the reason it was so hard!! Will the queenless colony just remove those?

    In my experience, yes.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,101

    Default Re: Some misc Nicot chat ...

    An update on my Nicot attempt. As stated earlier, I put the kit in the hive last Friday to "warm up". I placed the queen in the cage on Monday. Today, I have numerous eggs in the cups but no larvae yet. I will check again tomorrow.

    The last time I tried this method, once I saw eggs in the cups on day 4, I pulled the plug on the face and let the queen out. The next day, all the eggs were gone. I will not be doing that again.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •