Towel Treatment
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Thread: Towel Treatment

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    Stevens Point, WI
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    Default Towel Treatment

    Have been reading Randy Oliver's articles for quite awhile, but I was curious as I never noted it, when he made up his experimental towel treatment, can he store them at all or did they have to be used right away?
    I don't want anyone to read any more into the question than what is there, please. Thanks.
    Help is here to never misplace that hive tool again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTqB0zcmhmQ

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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    Stevens Point, WI
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    xxx
    Last edited by KevinWI; 04-15-2019 at 05:36 AM.
    Help is here to never misplace that hive tool again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTqB0zcmhmQ

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    Sevierville TN
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Disclaimer: Iím collaborating with the USDA-ARS to register this application method for oxalic acid, and have a Pesticide Research Authorization from the State of California. The method described here is not yet registered in the U.S. But since my research is funded by donations from beekeepers, I feel that I owe a progress report to those donors. I in no way encourage the unregistered application of any pesticide ó please wait until this method is approved by the EPA and your State before using it in your own hives. That's from randy oliver to on his site so just keep that in mind. Alot of people read things like that artical and see it as the next latest and greatest and start using it with no thought to if it's even legal or not or what side effects might be to bees or people you are selling hive products to. I'm not saying you are going to go out and try it bit it kinda seems like you looking to make some towels. In my very inexperienced opinion save the OA for a bloodless treatment and use a proven legal effective treatment like apivar, formic , or thymol figure out best way to use one of those in your area and wait on oav till winter. I used dribble and oav in summer and it's nothing to run home about very time consuming and ineffective. And even in the artical I used quote from randy seeems to have mixed results with the towels.

  5. #4
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    Stevens Point, WI
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by mybodyisatemple76 View Post
    Disclaimer: I’m collaborating with the USDA-ARS to register this application method for oxalic acid, and have a Pesticide Research Authorization from the State of California. The method described here is not yet registered in the U.S. But since my research is funded by donations from beekeepers, I feel that I owe a progress report to those donors. I in no way encourage the unregistered application of any pesticide — please wait until this method is approved by the EPA and your State before using it in your own hives. That's from randy oliver to on his site so just keep that in mind. Alot of people read things like that artical and see it as the next latest and greatest and start using it with no thought to if it's even legal or not or what side effects might be to bees or people you are selling hive products to. I'm not saying you are going to go out and try it bit it kinda seems like you looking to make some towels. In my very inexperienced opinion save the OA for a bloodless treatment and use a proven legal effective treatment like apivar, formic , or thymol figure out best way to use one of those in your area and wait on oav till winter. I used dribble and oav in summer and it's nothing to run home about very time consuming and ineffective. And even in the artical I used quote from randy seeems to have mixed results with the towels.
    The EXACT reason I wrote the last sentence to my first post. This is NOT THAT discussion.
    Help is here to never misplace that hive tool again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTqB0zcmhmQ

  6. #5
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    Jul 2017
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    But it is a discussion that need a to be said because there are so many people willing to bend the rules thinking they are conducting an experiment. When really they are throwing unregistered chemicals that no one knows what they will do epically someone as inexperienced as you and myself. Alot of people refuse to even read the warning label on half the approved chemicals.LEAVE THE CHEMICAL MIXING AND TESTING TO A PROFESSIONAL or for a real field trail it doesn't do anyone any good to go rouge and be a back yard scientist. I'm not saying you are doing that but I'm sure there are hundreds of people that read randys artical and went right out and did just that. So just saying for anyone that is thinking they are going to try it just give it some time to be approved then use it until then just use what we have.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    you are a savior of all the people who read the article and magically skipped that part.....
    Help is here to never misplace that hive tool again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTqB0zcmhmQ

  8. #7
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    Mar 2018
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    Stevens Point, WI
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    sometimes a question is just a question on an article for intellectual discussion. ....I have deleted my post and am now done with this thread...appreciate you saving everyone.
    Help is here to never misplace that hive tool again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTqB0zcmhmQ

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    No I just know I'm not a professional and am just going to stick to using the chemicals we have available and use asdirected by government. And I hope everyone else would as well. I hope randy gives an update this year on the towels or if you do a test feel free to share I'm sure you could apply for Pesticide Research Authorization in your state if you really wanted to do a test. Good Luck with your season this year and hope you have a good one. If you do it keep us updated I like seeing results like randy gave in artical and if you do it do it right get a PRA and show us all the results if you do no hard feelings just an opinion.

  10. #9
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    Sep 2018
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Answer to the question. Hmm how do I phrase this... I have heard that towels made up last for a few days like 7 after 10 or so days they will re crystallize and be somewhat less effective. I have heard of the someone Microwaving them, to remelt. For best results I have read to make what you need and try not to have left overs..
    use the 25ml and 25g per hive per the article..

    Attaching the file I have Read.

    GG
    Attached Files Attached Files

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Idaho Falls, ID
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by mybodyisatemple76 View Post
    I...am just going to stick to [behaving] as directed by [almighty] government.
    On "tax is theft" day? Irony??
    -- Joe
    "Make your own decision and embrace the consequences." -- jwcarlson

  12. #11
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    Sep 2018
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    hmm not trying to get too far off topic.
    "chemicals we have available and use asdirected by government"

    Seems Agent Orange was available and directed.....Not sure your requirements are optimized.
    100 thousand people have reactions to FDA approved drugs each year, many die.

    Approval will mean some company like say Bayer, will perform the tests required by the "approvers" to get approval.
    Driven by the "hope" that this investment, of time and funds can be recovered, and multiplied..
    In this specific example Glycerin can not be re-patented, Oxalic Acid is likely already patented, if it can be.
    So Bayer would be left with some sort of a feature where the process to keep the chemicals from crystallizing or separating could be patented.
    So once approved they would likely charge 12-15 bucks a towel and the towel can be made for 25 to 35 cents by folks that study the process.
    Hence the lack of a rush we see in the approval process. Also if the Bond folks win the day this may not be needed in 5 years. As the Vapor is approved (I Think) and the dribble is used, why the hard line on the towel mybodyisatemple? At this point you are quibbling on the delivery method, of OA which is already being used.
    GG

  13. #12
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    Boston, MA, USA
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Did you see the Oxalic Acid Progress Report 2018 California Field Trials? that was the last official update. Randy was nice enough to provide the data set and I ran my own analysis. The numbers I was getting based on his data set are dammed impressive with P values for effectiveness better than 1X10^-3. The other finding I helped tease out of the data is the most effective concentration of GLY. I you want the statistics I am happy to private message them but they have not had enough review for me to be comfortable posting them publicly.

  14. #13
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    Idaho Falls, ID
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    684

    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Madsen View Post
    Randy was nice enough to provide the data set and I ran my own analysis.
    But, but, but.... are you government approved?!?!? I'm telling.....!
    -- Joe
    "Make your own decision and embrace the consequences." -- jwcarlson

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    Sevierville TN
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    I would like to see them if you wanna pm them to me bit you will have to simplify for me because I don't understand folds or what you mean by1X10^-3. P values.

  16. #15
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  17. #16
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    I wonder what your statistical conclusions would be if you teased out some results of his test where he used the 18 grams of OA over nine treatments. then again as the saying goes you get lies, **** lies and statistics. You could always throw in Boltzmans constant. LOL

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Ozark, AL
    Posts
    806

    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by mybodyisatemple76 View Post
    Disclaimer: Iím collaborating with the USDA-ARS to register this application method for oxalic acid, and have a Pesticide Research Authorization from the State of California. The method described here is not yet registered in the U.S. But since my research is funded by donations from beekeepers, I feel that I owe a progress report to those donors. I in no way encourage the unregistered application of any pesticide ó please wait until this method is approved by the EPA and your State before using it in your own hives. That's from randy oliver to on his site so just keep that in mind. Alot of people read things like that artical and see it as the next latest and greatest and start using it with no thought to if it's even legal or not or what side effects might be to bees or people you are selling hive products to. I'm not saying you are going to go out and try it bit it kinda seems like you looking to make some towels. In my very inexperienced opinion save the OA for a bloodless treatment and use a proven legal effective treatment like apivar, formic , or thymol figure out best way to use one of those in your area and wait on oav till winter. I used dribble and oav in summer and it's nothing to run home about very time consuming and ineffective. And even in the artical I used quote from randy seeems to have mixed results with the towels.
    But nothing to do with the question the OP asked!

  19. #18
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    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    1,648

    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Lets set a few things straight, OAV might have been time consuming way back in the dark ages around 2017 but is now a very quick effective and non invasive treatment.

  20. #19
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    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    4,577

    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    I didn't have any guilt trip at all over having made up a small batch. I agree with not making any more than you can use right away. In a zip lock bag at room temp. and exposed to some sunlight they do start to give up a bit of an acrid smell that is not there when fresh. Stored in the freezer would be preferable if you must keep them around for a short while.

    I did not pursue the project long enough or do controls to make any judgement. About that time I went to the band heater system for OAV. Much less fuss in my circumstances but I can imagine how it could be attractive to large operations.
    Frank

  21. #20

    Default Re: Towel Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Lets set a few things straight, OAV might have been time consuming way back in the dark ages around 2017 but is now a very quick effective and non invasive treatment.
    This time of year, how many treatments, how many days apart do you figure for it to be effective?
    Imagine you have a thousand hives scattered in a dozen yards ranging from a few miles away to 100. I think that these sorts of beekeepers are the one's that RO's methods are directed toward. Five or six trips to every hive, every 3 - 5 days without any real assurance of efficacy where your income is dependent on success.
    A dozen hobby hives in your back yard....different story.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

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