frame exchange with nucs.
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    Colorado
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    Default frame exchange with nucs.

    Do any of you require a frame exchange when selling nucs? I have plans on selling roughly 10 nucs this year and having 50 drawn frames walk out the door is no small expense. How is this generally handled? Charge 15 dollars less with frame exchange? Just suck up the expense? Thanks

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    washington, vermont, USA
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    368

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Just add the expense onto the price of the nucs. Would you really want frames from 10 different apiaries coming into yours? I wouldn't.

  4. #3
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    May 2016
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    Colorado
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    Default

    I always assumed it was undrawn foundation exchanged for drawn foundation.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
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    3,748

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    I am selling my nucs with no exchange. Once I go all foundationless, the frames are a buck apiece.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Powhatan, Virginia, USA
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    362

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    No exchange. I am part foundation and part foundation less. Cost of frames is already in the price of the nuc.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    1,857

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    as VT said, I would not want to have comb from a bunch of random people getting cycled in to my operation. Ya you could do foundation, but whats the frame history?
    if they are doing new frames why not buy in bulk you self? make it easy on the costumer

    So ya the frames are a cost... but at what local prices are right now....$135 for a package, nucs trending at $185-200 depending on queen type, your going to get a good ROI

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Gould, OK
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    119

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Remember you can give the nucs the older frames. Its recommend to change out your frames between 3 to 5 years any way. This is to help with contamination being brought into the hive. Are you selling the frames or the hole nuc box. Just add the price of equipment into your price of a nuc.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhaupt2 View Post
    Do any of you require a frame exchange when selling nucs? ...
    The customers for the few NUCs I sell are happy to exchange new frames and plastic foundation when they buy from me.
    ...We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are...

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA, USA
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    Default

    I figure it is baked into the price. My back of the envelope calculation says it takes about $6 to 8 dollars of honey to draw out a frame (and a frame has about 6 to 8 dollars of wax). The math works out about the same both ways. So $130 package plus 5 frames time $8 per frame is $170 per nuc. The math works again.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    1,857

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    My back of the envelope calculation says
    Yep Randy Oliver's work says 2# of honey to draw a frame.

    but... that's like 1.66 pounds of sugar at $0.50 a pound
    Based on Seeley (2001) it take about 2.5 pounds of sugar to feed a deep frame of brood,and about 12 oz protein.
    so at $2 a pound for bulk sub IIRR mega bee is 47%(can't find it online ATM) so spit ball protein at $1 a pound
    So aside from needed colony inputs ie 8.5 pounds a week sugar to maintain 50k workers and some protein (cant rember my sorce)
    so spit balling if your running a feed lot, A 3x5 brood factory drawing and kicking a frame of capped brood a week costs ya about $4 in sugar and maby $1 in sub. and $2.5(small order) a frame/foundation..
    The math works out about the same both ways
    it dosen't
    So frame of brood costs ya like $7.5 if you have nothing else coming in

    deep frame is 9k cells, bees are 3500 a pound, a 3 pound package is 7500 bees.. so two frames that are a ball parked at 60% brood = a package worth of bees... add in a accepted and laying queen and the opportunity value of the 3 or so frames of drawn comb that queen can exploit when the brood hatches out and lays in it vs foundation.
    nucs would seem to be way under valued.
    so the last question is are you making $40 queens, or $20 queens

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    North Wilkesboro, NC, USA
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    I got 2 NUC's from Brushy Mtn. last year. They had wooden nuc boxes and required a $30.00 refundable deposit on the box.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chicago, ILL. USA
    Posts
    314

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    Yep Randy Oliver's work says 2# of honey to draw a frame.

    but... that's like 1.66 pounds of sugar at $0.50 a pound
    Based on Seeley (2001) it take about 2.5 pounds of sugar to feed a deep frame of brood,and about 12 oz protein.
    msl,
    can you provide links to those statistics?

    No frame exchange for me when I sell nucs, the price of the nuc includes my costs of new frames.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Locally here you can get 4 frame nucs with frame swap for around 135.00. Or last year you could.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Catskills, New York, USA
    Posts
    1,550

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Quote Originally Posted by dr4ngas View Post
    Remember you can give the nucs the older frames. Its recommend to change out your frames between 3 to 5 years any way. This is to help with contamination being brought into the hive. Are you selling the frames or the hole nuc box. Just add the price of equipment into your price of a nuc.
    No way do that! You are giving your “might be contaminated” OLD frames to another beekeeper, most likely an unsuspecting new beek. I have been there and received AFB from that. Also there are unseen diseases that are in comb, ex. nosema cerana and others.
    Proverbs 16:24

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA, USA
    Posts
    253

    Default

    I think a deposit is a great way to make a little extra on a nucs. Humble abodes as migratory Woodenware nucs for $19. With a 30 deposit you make 10 for all unreturned nuc box. I think there is value in beginning having a nuc box. If the keep nuc boxes they can start the nuc in July with a 2 combs of brood they go into winter with 2.5 hives.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA, USA
    Posts
    253

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post

    " The math works out about the same both ways" it dosen't
    Good analysis. I was careful to say, honey and wax is about the same. yes, you can do things to drive down the cost and value of the frames. Naturally feeding sugar reduces in input cost. but you still end up giving away 6 to 8 dolars in wax and frames. redcue to cost of wax loss by using older brood frams as several have pointed out. Old brood wax is worth a lot less. If you are trying to mimimise opernity cost of selling nucs, feed with sugar and use old frames. I agree with you. nucs would seem to be way under valued nomatter how I run the numbers. Particularly when they let you keep a good nuc box.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    1,857

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcin View Post
    msl,
    can you provide links to those statistics?
    here is most of the base info I used to calculate values
    seeley suggests a 50% feed conversion on sucrose https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00891902/document
    sugar to wax converstion http://scientificbeekeeping.com/ligh...ng-foundation/
    Protein per larva https://pollinators.msu.edu/resource...ng-honey-bees/

  19. #18
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Skaneateles, NY
    Posts
    938

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    seems like around my area 5 frame nucs are 160-170 each. Most dont expect frame exchange but a lot of the sellers look like they ask customers to bring their own box to transfer the nuc into.
    Im going to try sell a few this year and whilst ill raise the nucs in wooden boxes i have made i will sell them in ML cardboard nuc boxes. It just takes me too long to make the wooden ware to just give it away with each nuc.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,748

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Yep, $165, no exchange, bring your own box with the bottom secured to it, and a screen or entrance plug. If you are selling in a cardboard nuc box, be sure to get paid for it above the price of the nuc without a box. I will provide a loaner nuc with deposit if customer shows up without a hive.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Tyler, Texas
    Posts
    121

    Default Re: frame exchange with nucs.

    Yes frame exchange, 5 new frames with plastic foundation

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