Treated and Untreated in same yard
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Blue Ridge, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    138

    Default Treated and Untreated in same yard

    I recently had a lady allow me to place a hive in her yard where she has kept bees in the past but they all recently died and she says she doesn't treat and is getting 2 nucs soon. Are there any precautions with keeping my treated hives in the same yard? I know they intermingle all the time with untreated bees but I never have kept them in the same general area so I didn't know if my treatments would need to be done more frequently or anything to keep from being overtaken by mites if that is what killed hers?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Not ideal, I would have robbing screens in place to keep drifting drones and refugees out.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA, USA
    Posts
    234

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    More importantly, would be for her hives to have robbing screens so your bees are less likely to end up robbing her weak hives of honey and mites.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,657

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    It seems that one of the key factors in a successful treatment free operation is isolation from treated hives. This is the exact opposite of that. I don’t think this will end well for her untreated hives.
    --shinbone
    (1975-1980, and now since 2011; maintain about 10 hives; Zone 5b; 15" rain; 5500')

  6. #5

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    Hope she is the kind of person who won't blame you for her bees dying again. Mite check often and treat accordingly. The mite checks should guide you not how often. I would purchase robber screens for her hives and use the excuse of not wanting your bees to rob her smaller new hives out. Wouldn't hurt to put one on yours too.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Blue Ridge, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    Thanks for the info. I made sure she was ok with my treatments since I knew she was untreated but according to her it is only because she never has had to before although I would think that probably contributed to some loss last year or in the past.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland County, Vermont,USA
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    2,008

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    If she isn't opposed to treating, perhaps offer to show her how and treat at the same time? J

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    washington, vermont, USA
    Posts
    365

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    I can't see how it wouldn't have a negative effect on the rate of mite buildup in your hives. Drifting is very common meaning more mites coming in your hive after treatments from hers. Not to mention a virus/disease reservoir. But like fivej said maybe offer to help her treat her hives when you do yours? Best of luck.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Blue Ridge, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    138

    Default

    Good call, hopefully I can offer to do OAV at the same time as mine when needed and get her approval.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ardnamurchan and Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    I've put essentially Varroa-free colonies into a heavily infested apiary (with 20-30 metres between hives, so well spread out) and have recorded Varroa in capped drone cells within 2 weeks and DWV-symptomatic workers within 11 weeks. Virus levels increase sharply. If she doesn't agree to treating hers I wouldn't put yours there in the first place ...
    The Apiarist - beekeeping in Fife, Scotland

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,407

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    Yes robbing screens on both her and your hives. Are your bees local? You could be introducing new viruses that destroy her bees. Meanwhile why don't you contribute by using local mite resistant bees?

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Blue Ridge, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    I live about 30 minutes away but we both actually get our bees from the same guy who is treatment free but doesn't recommend we continue treatment free without good experience in it. Therefore, I've been treating each each with OAV and haven't lost any yet but it could be because of his mite resistant bees and my treatment combined. I was doing checks this weekend and noticed at least 4 bees total from my hives with mites on them so I know they have a lot more that I didn't see. I did a shot of OAV last night before they are ready for honey supers. I know it won't help the capped bees but only one hive has good capped numbers so at least it will help some.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
    Posts
    5,514

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    Mites visible on adult worker bees are a sign of a high amount of infestation. I think of it as an indication that all of the preferred mite biting places (tucked up underneath between the segments of the abdomen) are already occupied by other mites. That's probably not literally true, but still. Time to get out your sugar roll, or alcohol wash, gear and give it a test.

    As soon as it's warm enough (it may be already if you're supering up) I would suggest considering MAQS, which can be used with supers on. It also kills mites under the cappings. At this time of year your daily highs would probably be OK for MAQS. High daytime temps are what make using MAQS in the summer in VA tricky, but now you'd probably be OK. My personal limit is no higher than 80/81 F for day time highs when using MAQS. I think the actual labeling is a little more liberal. It's not my fave treatment, but it works just fine when others can't be used. Read the label and follow instructions exactly. It's picky.

    I'm up in northern NY, so I can usually find a week with those temps in late July/early August. But I once lived over in Rappahannock County, so I know you'd likely couldn't use MAQS in the summer.

    Nancy

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
    Posts
    5,514

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    Mites visible on adult worker bees are a sign of a high amount of infestation. I think of it as an indication that all of the preferred mite biting places (tucked up underneath between the segments of the abdomen) are already occupied by other mites. That's probably not literally true, but still. Time to get out your sugar roll, or alcohol wash, gear and give it a test.

    As soon as it's warm enough (it may be already if you're supering up) I would suggest considering MAQS, which can be used with supers on. It also kills mites under the cappings. At this time of year your daily highs would probably be OK for MAQS. High daytime temps are what make using MAQS in the summer in VA tricky, but now you'd probably be OK. My personal limit is no higher than 80/81 F for day time highs when using MAQS. I think the actual labeling is a little more liberal. It's not my fave treatment, but it works just fine when others can't be used. Read the label and follow instructions exactly. It's picky.

    I'm up in northern NY, so I can usually find a week with those temps in late July/early August. But I once lived over in Rappahannock County, so I know you'd likely couldn't use MAQS in the summer.

    Nancy

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Blue Ridge, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Treated and Untreated in same yard

    Thanks, I'll probably try to get some MAQs in. I'll see how many varroa dropped from the OAV over the next few days. I was surprised to see any since I treated last winter after no brood and they all made it through winter with good numbers.

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