Are there vaporized Oxalic acid failures? - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Milford, Michigan USA
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: Are there vaporized Oxalic acid failures?

    I may be wrong but I assumed that the OP is a hobbist like myself with only a few hives to manage. With only a limited number of colonies to treat I do not find OAV unmanageable and for the five years I have used it exclusively I do not believe I have lost any colonies to mites. One size does not fit all and we all have different objectives.

    I bother because I have determined that OAV suits my needs. My post was intended to address the OPs concern not to debate.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,734

    Default Re: Are there vaporized Oxalic acid failures?

    There are reports of people getting acceptable mite control with 7 day interval treatments but my feeling is that 4 or 5 day gives better results. "Works for me" advise is not the best decision criteria though. I am not in an area with a lot of indrift from other bees and have rather low levels to start with.

    I suggest if you are starting out with OAV to have screened sticky boards under some of your hives and monitor mite drop for several weeks before you start OA then again regularly to see how effective the treatments are. Keep on doing your series of treatments until the mites drop to, and stay, at the level you think is safe. Like johno I dont count how many times. I have not seen any failures or mortality.

    If you start too late in the season or have mite rebound in long autumn conditions, you will have treatment failures no matter what method you use.
    Frank

  4. #23
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Alvaton, KY, USA
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Are there vaporized Oxalic acid failures?

    I want to thank everybody for their replies. I am resolved to 1) do frequent alcohol washes, 2) use a longer acting fall, (August, etc,) treatment and/or treat more repeatedly with OA, and 3) attend the local beekeeping meetings more. I have read where other folks want to quit but I am determined to keep my bees alive. I know if others can do it I can too. Sure not as easy as it was when I was young. Of course that's true of a lot of things. Thanks all

  5. #24
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Skaneateles, NY
    Posts
    938

    Default Re: Are there vaporized Oxalic acid failures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakes Creek View Post
    I want to thank everybody for their replies. I am resolved to 1) do frequent alcohol washes, 2) use a longer acting fall, (August, etc,) treatment and/or treat more repeatedly with OA, and 3) attend the local beekeeping meetings more. I have read where other folks want to quit but I am determined to keep my bees alive. I know if others can do it I can too. Sure not as easy as it was when I was young. Of course that's true of a lot of things. Thanks all
    Mate i used multiple diff mite treatments last year and so far have had really good winter survival this year.
    I used formic pro, apivar and OAV last year.
    Will be doing same this year.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Dallas Texas
    Posts
    5

    Default

    There are some great comments in this thread so I have little to offer but emphasis. Bees that die in the winter actually began in August for most of the USA. Northernmost areas experience this more than southern areas. The reason is fatbody = overall health. August bees have the least fatbody. Thin, lean, foraging / defending bees. This is when they have the least fatbody to spare but when mites peak in the environment and in hives. Mite management is an annual event. It is proactive not reactive. IPM is often taken to be reactive which is a failed view. Beginning at month 1, Mite counts should be the lowest and increase relative to brood up to the flow. Expansion numbers are outbredding mites leading to flow. You want low mite numbers. Post flow, bee production slows. Mites peak in August - ish depending on national geography. It’s imperative if your going to treat at all, that this is considered your most important treatment. A clean up treatment should follow in the fall followed by a clean up as flow starts in spring. The tools in our fight against mites are many and often not understood to the extent they should be. I’m of the opinion that all beekeepers should become experts of each and treatment available. Some you may know little about but you should continue to study those until you feel you’ve mastered them. They each have their pros and cons. From a chemical treatment perspective, the Honey Bee Health Coalition offers a great informative chart of these chemical methods and good details. This should be a great start. It’s free. From a non-Chemical treatment perspective, learning is a little more challenging. This is not a money making category but offers valuable tools. Tools that EVERYONE should be keenly knowledgeable in. OTS and forced brood breaks for example. Priceless. Thermal Treatment using Mighty Mite, priceless - kills mites under capped brood every time. This shines brightest in August when mites peak. Too hot for MAQS for a 7 day string, provides the quickest / most complete Mite kill. Colony strength is maintained (contrary to forced breaks and intoxicating bees chemically stunting them) and no need for repetitive treatments hoping to get enough reduction vaping. Dribble is a great tool this month but must be repetitive due to the reproductive machine under that caps. Highest risk for queens so you’d better have spares banked.

    Mite management must be viewed on a 12 month calendar. You must sample to know numbers. You must be lowest in spring. You need to have most when bee production recedes post flow and knock them out at peak. Clean up in fall and you will have healthy, vigorous thriving but most importantly - surviving bees.

    If you research Mighty Mite on Facebook or the internet, you will find year over year a group of people who understand mites and the most who have zero losses or the lowest losses of us all for this reason.

    Learn mites cycles on an annual basis. Learn bees cycles on an annual basis. Learn all you can about the chemical and non-chemical approaches. Be proactive and not reactive. Goals should not be 3:100 each of 12 months but by viewing August (or your locals Mite peak) as your #1 most important mite treatment regardless of method used, fall #2 and spring as #3. You will be able to provide any additional treatments that may be needed and master this mite management thing forever and stop loosing colonies.

    None of us will ever master bees. They are too smart for us to master. Mites are dumb. We can master them. Best of luck to you. For all if you Hobby keepers and sideline keepers, cut and paste this in your notes and make it your homework learning assignment. Master the mites and enjoy your bees. Worry less about all the rest. Healthy Bees thrive. Sickly bees die. Beekeeping should be fun.

    The commercial guys know this all. They have their calendars mapped, what will be done when, how, by who, where, intervals and methods.

    Queen breeders know all of this or they would not be successful at what they do.

    Master the mites - enjoy the bee.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Geauga, Ohio
    Posts
    428

    Default Re: Are there vaporized Oxalic acid failures?

    Yes, many batteries are too weak to generate enough heat with the first 3 min use of the pan vaporizer. I have to do 2 clicks with my small battery. A car battery works great, but is heavy and expensive. I look for no residue left from the 2g in the pan of the vaporizer. Any residue left means I need to do another click.

    I lost a hive couple years ago with low mite counts in August - 6/300 or 2/300 or something pretty low like that - due to mites. There were so many mites in that hive when I realized in Jan that they were dead, there was one on the dead Queen's back...

    But those mites did not come from my hive. I can say that with confidence because I checked for mite frass. It is tiny white grains on the roof of the cell, only deposited when a female mite successfully reproduces. There was almost none in the brood comb - very hard to find. But mites were easy to find. They littered the solid bottom. They were all over the dead bees I did an alcohol wash on.

    This hive went robbing on Nov 1, which I happened to observe. There was no forage, but they came back from somewhere with abdomens bulging. 2 months later, dead. Those winter bees were fine, until mites arrived and sucked them dry. This is a new take on how hives die due to mites. You can google "mite frass" and find pics, and check your deadouts for it. If you have lots of mites, and no mite frass, then your mites were imported.

    Now I find nearby beekeepers and offer them free OAV treatment...and I treat with OAV in early Sept to get a baseline of mite levels, and then about every 2-3 weeks, after a fly day. If the OAV is working, it is killing 90%+ of the mites in a broodless hive. So, 300 mites, then 30, then 3...If you keep getting constant mite drops post OAV, either your hive wasn't broodless, or your bees were importing mites.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,407

    Default Re: Are there vaporized Oxalic acid failures?

    widespread use of robbing screens would help with external mites. I am using them more and more.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA, USA
    Posts
    406

    Default Re: Are there vaporized Oxalic acid failures?

    good to hear low mite numbers, especially after a mild winter.
    8 years, 8 hives

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