Can't stop the EFB. - Page 4
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 61 to 79 of 79
  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,666

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    That is an interesting thought of stripping the comb and foundation from frames and then thoroughly scorching and run them foundationless. It would be a cheap way to test for reoccurrence with out risking the price of all new frames and foundation. If they draw them a bit screwy, but healthy, they can be replaced later. Thanks for that idea.

    Somewhere in my reading I came across some info on how difficult it is to culture melissococcus plutons bacteria in the lab. Apparently the necessary conditions are highly specific. Some particular mineral salt levels being one; perhaps potassium. That is hard to resolve with how easy it seems in some conditions to re establish itself.
    Frank

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #62
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    336

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    That is an interesting thought of stripping the comb and foundation from frames and then thoroughly scorching and run them foundationless. It would be a cheap way to test for reoccurrence with out risking the price of all new frames and foundation. If they draw them a bit screwy, but healthy, they can be replaced later. Thanks for that idea.

    Somewhere in my reading I came across some info on how difficult it is to culture melissococcus plutons bacteria in the lab. Apparently the necessary conditions are highly specific. Some particular mineral salt levels being one; perhaps potassium. That is hard to resolve with how easy it seems in some conditions to re establish itself.
    I don't run foundation anyway. I just cut out the comb and scorch the frames. I can then reuse them in my existing hives. I usually place one between two drawn out combs to make sure everything is super straight - but have run up to 3 in a row without much issue. Unlike many, I've never had much luck starting with 100% foundationless and have been able to get rid of all my foundation over the years.


    I did two slips out of my hive that's never shown a single sign of EFB. I'm hoping by spreading those genetics through my yard I'll be able to breed my way out of the issue - which is usually the best answer for most things bees. My closest neighbor has had their bees for many years and also never had an issue. I waited until she confirmed she had drones before splitting. Let's hope I never see it again!

  4. #63
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,666

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    I agree that putting in 100% foundationless frames would be a mess If you were doing it in the fashion of a double shakedown though, the first several days being a purge of the bees gut, what the drawn comb looked like would not matter if it was to be remelted anyways. I have done some foundationless in the past but only for grafting comb or drone culling purposes.

    My bees were practically bomb proof for 5+ years! Then one winter I had one nuc peter out about this time of year. Definitely not bomb proof now; more like a war zone!
    Frank

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    336

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    I agree that putting in 100% foundationless frames would be a mess If you were doing it in the fashion of a double shakedown though, the first several days being a purge of the bees gut, what the drawn comb looked like would not matter if it was to be remelted anyways. I have done some foundationless in the past but only for grafting comb or drone culling purposes.

    My bees were practically bomb proof for 5+ years! Then one winter I had one nuc peter out about this time of year. Definitely not bomb proof now; more like a war zone!
    True. My EFB has always been very small and easily "curable". If you did a full shakeout you'd have to think about what you're going to put them into.

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    5,205

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    In Canada Glacial Acetic seems to be rather difficult for an individual to purchase and have shipped.
    here is some info on bee-l that might help you find some in canada, I didn't go to the links and look at them though

    https://community.lsoft.com/scripts/...BEE-L&P=124751

    https://community.lsoft.com/scripts/...BEE-L&P=122216
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  7. #66
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,666

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Thanks for the links; I will have a look through them to see if there are sources for the acetic acid. Several that I contacted last year would not ship to an individual. Liability issues I think.
    Frank

  8. #67
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Has there been any studies into the efficacy of acetic acid on efb? I was under the impression that it didn't work, and was used mainly for cleaning up nosema.

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    5,205

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    Thanks for the links; I will have a look through them to see if there are sources for the acetic acid. Several that I contacted last year would not ship to an individual. Liability issues I think.
    in one of the videos, a person ask where to get it Ontario here is his response.
    Hi Jeff
    Send me an email [email protected] and I'll forward our source. You should ask Dancing Bee to carry it. ( I will too) I think I overstated things in the video. Acteic acid applied in controlled conditions kills MOST spores. Even if it doesn't kill all spores it can be very beneficial.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  10. #69
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,666

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhaupt2 View Post
    Has there been any studies into the efficacy of acetic acid on efb? I was under the impression that it didn't work, and was used mainly for cleaning up nosema.
    I have some frames in storage that are badly soiled; possibly both efb and nosema. Some info points to 18 month survival of efb in bee bread / pollen and I doubt the acetic acid fumes would get to that. Was thinking that the acetic acid exposure might lessen the load for the bees to contend with when / if I repopulate those frames.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    in one of the videos, a person ask where to get it Ontario here is his response.
    I sent off an email to Paul Kelley re. a source for concentrated acetic which they use in their fumigation process.

    Thanks
    Frank

  11. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Delhi, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
    Posts
    1,516

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Well, regarding n. cerana we can all do what Randy O. just recommended on Bee-l regarding n. cerana, “screw ‘em if they can’t handle the spores let them die”!
    Western Catskill Mountains
    Proverbs 16:24

  12. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    5,205

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    Well, regarding n. cerana we can all do what Randy O. just recommended on Bee-l regarding n. cerana, “screw ‘em if they can’t handle the spores let them die”!
    funny I was going to copy it over here and never got around to it, he's 100% correct for his climate, but not so much in colder climates, it can be a lot more deadly, problem is not much you can do about it. I have always had low counts back from BVS for nosema, my assumption has always been, it's because we get such good pollen flows, my counts were low even during the previous drought we had.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  13. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    5,205

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    Well, regarding n. cerana we can all do what Randy O. just recommended on Bee-l regarding n. cerana, “screw ‘em if they can’t handle the spores let them die”!
    I agree with Randy in his climate, I think it's a worse problem in our cold climate. I have never got a high number back from BVS spring or fall for nosema, so if I had to guess, and I do have to guess, because we normally get good pollen flows all summer, we luck out. Mine were low even in the drought a few years ago, so I also have to guess the drought may cut down on the amount of pollen but not necessarily the quality. I think you said you were going to send out a sample to BVS this spring, if that hive is short of pollen would be interesting to see what your nosema counts are. this is the third time typing this keep getting data base errors, but you don't have to beat me with a stick this time I'm copying it first, well one of them showed up while I was typing this one, this system is getting really unstable.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  14. #73
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,666

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    I am just counting off 5 months that my bees have been unable to fly (return flights anyways) that is not something that happens in Randy's climate. The winter before this one was the first time I noticed any great amount of pooped up frames along with the colonies that did not get going in the spring. I did not know yet that efb also had its foot in the door. I had an inspection in June last year to certify for bee sales and the inspector said it was just normal. He did not see the efb either.

    I will have to study up on the connection between Nosema C. and lack of pollen. Being that we get little fall flow and winter stores consist in a large part of capped sugar syrup the colony could be quite pollen starved when they move up into stores.
    Frank

  15. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
    Posts
    4,646

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Environment with varying degrees plays the biggest part in how bad this disease can be. Australia has one coast that never gets EFB while the other gets it bad enough they burn apiaries.

    Now if you're unlucky to be to be in an area that is advantageous for EFB other factors come into play; queen tolerance, how big the hive or split, nectar/pollen dearth, long winter later spring...

    If my experience a shook swarm by itself never works, the bees carry it with them in their gut and it comes back every time. In those studies you are more likely to get rid of AFB than EFB with shook swarm. In another study antibiotics had a 21% chance of reoccurrence, antibiotic with shook swarm had a 4% reoccurrence.

    Acetic acid does work on empty comb. It is also good for keeping pest out of comb for storage.

    Long term storage of equipment of 18 month, longer for bee bread. No need to burn anything just store it.

    Refrigeration prolongs the disease, might keep this in mind for outdoor storage and adjust your storage time.

    Rendered wax is completely safe.

    Small hives and new splits are very susceptible. Amount of nurse bees per larva can play a part, fewer nurse bees enables the disease to overwhelm a hive.

    EOs especially the two added to HBH; LGO and Spearmint along with thyme will increase both the susceptibility and the severity of EFB among other diseases if fed to bees.

    Mites have nothing to do with EFB.

    This book is very informative along with good solid facts. After all Dr. White was the one that identified it. To date there is not one fact in his book I have been able to disprove. And it's almost a 100 years old.
    If you have not read this it's a must read!!!

    https://books.google.com/books?hl=en...stance&f=false

    Food grade acetic acid
    https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ge-of-wet-comb

    Links
    https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...rome-Snotbrood

    shook swarm;
    https://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...55#post1657455

  16. #75
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland County, Vermont,USA
    Posts
    2,086

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Excellent info Flower. Thanks for posting. J

  17. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    336

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Definitely good info.

    Also confirms my suspicion that EOs were playing a part in it. As said before, likely from weakening the bees natural gut flora allowing EFB to take over.

    I have not used any EOs this year and instead have been adding a capsule of probiotics to a gallon of feed - allowing good bacteria to flood out the bad.

    So far, not a single sign of the disease but am keeping a very close eye.

  18. #77
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    KC, MO, USA
    Posts
    4,646

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Thanks Fivej and mtnmyke HTH

    What kind of probiotics are you using?

  19. #78
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    336

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlowerPlanter View Post
    Thanks Fivej and mtnmyke HTH

    What kind of probiotics are you using?
    I was using the Pro DFM from Mann Lake since they had a killer deal on it in store, when I was in the area.

    However, after reading the listed strains it's really no different than the ones I buy at Costco. When I ran out of the DFM I just started opening the tablets. I grind up sugar in a blender and then hand mix in the probiotic and just put a tablespoon or so on top of the bars. They immediately start licking it up.

    I did put it in their feed in the early spring, but they are no longer taking feed so to keep a constant supply in the hive - the dry sugar method is necessary.

  20. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    10,124

    Default Re: Can't stop the EFB.

    this thread came to my attention today and i realized i had missed it.

    lots of good info here.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •