Newby with Horizontal Hive Build - Page 4
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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    4,187

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Quote Originally Posted by ursa_minor View Post
    Just a quick question, how long should I wait for them to move over?

    I have had the bees for 2 weeks, they are starting to put pollen on the first new frame at the entrance of the hive but the 4 langstroth standing frames are still full of bees and the queen is still there. I check the bees once a week, remove and correct some of the comb they seem to be building on the edges of the langstroth frames and the hive box itself. The lang frames are deeps so I could not put them side by side and had to lean them up against the side, the bees are building some comb a little wacky. I was considering laying a cotton cloth over the frames to give the impression that they cannot build comb extending out into the hive.

    I keep telling myself to have patience, to take a breath and wait, but I guess I am anxious to do this right and to have the frames hanging in order. I understand this is my problem and not the bees.
    This will take weeks.
    Clearly, you only have enough bees to cover the 4 original frames - they will not just leave them behind and jump into some emptiness.
    You need to have enough bees to cover 6-7-8 frames - then those additional bees will be building your new frames.
    Then the queen will come and start laying into newly build combs.
    Then the nest will be gradually moving over.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,301

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    months is a better yard stick than weeks. When the hive doubles it Should be 1/2 transfered, doubles again 3/4 transfered , by then maybe 2 frames could be shook out.
    do you have pics of the wonky? Is there eggs in the new comb? Else they may be reusing the side ways ones.
    If they are building they may need feed to help with wax secretion.

    next check see if there is open brood in the old frames, if yeas and it has been 8 days then the queen is laying in the old combs.
    They will move out at thier own pace.

    if you wish to hurry them , you will force them to leave stores or brood behind..

    Any way to start fashioning a Queen excluder? as you find a frame brood less or you find the queen out in the new part , "preventing" her from re laying up the old comb could speed up the process. But the bees would need access , queen exclude only. then in 3 weeks when all the brood hatches you can pull that frame. Likely you do 1 at a time to lessen the impact, and "help to transition , not force.

    Or just leave it there till spring then prune it out during the sping inspection.

    GG

  4. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Christopher Lake, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Thank you both, I did not check for open brood, but there is definitely capped brood. I was in there yesterday, is it too soon to go look again today? I don't wish to bother them unnecessarily but how often can I go in?

    I removed the sugar water feed, they were not taking it at all. The blooming season has just started here and I live right up against the Boreal forest which is abundant with wild choke cherry, saskatoon berries, wild gooseberry, currants and willows. I have a large number of apples, cherries, and plums that are ready to burst, and I run a peony root business with about 400 plants some of which, do produce pollen. I will also add that I have a large yard that is rife with dandelions, which I purposely did not mow and, which I am sure, my farmer neighbour is just itching to spray LOL!

    I do have a way to exclude the queen, I have a fairly tight follower board that I could set with a 2 inch gap at the bottom. I would suppose that the fact that the bees are working the frame of drawn comb that I put at the entrance side of the hive is a sign that they are starting to move over.

    From both of your answers, and I respect both after reading this forum for the last year, I see that the best course of action, for the bees, is to do nothing.

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Christopher Lake, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Just a quick update, I was in the hive yesterday and they have moved onto the frames nearest the entrance and are building new comb, there are a lot of bees. This would make the timeframe about 4 weeks.

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,301

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Quote Originally Posted by ursa_minor View Post
    Just a quick update, I was in the hive yesterday and they have moved onto the frames nearest the entrance and are building new comb, there are a lot of bees. This would make the timeframe about 4 weeks.
    Sweet
    as more bees hatch they will expand into the hive farther.
    I would not use the follower board as the excluder. Ideally the queen be kept out only, once brood free the old frames can be removed 1 at a time over several weeks. A follower "may" create a split and E Queen Cells. As well a disjointed nest.

    sound like you are progressing nicely

    GG

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    2,046

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    I would not use the follower board as the excluder. [...] A follower "may" create a split and E Queen Cells.
    My understanding is that the follower board has been in place as a Queen Excluder since around the end of May. Today is the 11th June. So I'm curious - what will the bees be making these Emergency Queen Cells with ?
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  8. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,301

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    My understanding is that the follower board has been in place as a Queen Excluder since around the end of May. Today is the 11th June. So I'm curious - what will the bees be making these Emergency Queen Cells with ?
    LJ
    eggs or 2 day or less old larvae.

    So with 2 inches under the Follower board, queen could have went over there to lay up some cells , then return, Lack of Queen pheromone may cause the nurse bees to create a queen. Here it did not , so all worked out.

    GG

    your statement is correct, Mine is a general statement, if follower is used as QE then one "could" have split the nest.
    The OP wanted to convert from Lang NUC to top bar, so QE would keep the queen from relaying up the frames that need removed, hopefully allowing sooner removal.

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Christopher Lake, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    The follower was only used to keep the bees out of the back end of my hive. It is an extra long Layens and I thought the space was too large, but I did leave room under the board for them to explore. So I have not yet excluded the queen from these frames. My confidence in handling the frames full of bees is getting better so up till now I have not closely examined them but I certainly will this weekend.

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    2,046

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Ok - thanks for that clarification.

    Speaking from my own experience, I have no concerns whatsoever regarding the use of truncated 'follower' boards to clear combs, and have been using this method for several years now without a single instance of queen cell development or split broodnests.

    Indeed, for me Long Hives have two major advantages (apart from lifting issues) over vertical hives. One is the ability to easily adjust the effective size of the box by the simple moving a of board. The second is an ability to place combs on the 'wrong' side of the board, either for clearance (in the case of partially-filled combs of honey, pollen or brood), or for 'bed & breakfasting' for a few days combs of open brood which have been used to pull nurse bees up through a queen excluder (say) when using a Cloake Board. A very useful facility when queen-rearing.

    Here's a top shot of my favourite 'stash' hive:



    It's very versatile: will take any depth of frame, and - thanks to the two different sizes of partial Crown Board shown at the left - by positioning the truncated partition board appropriately, it's then easy to arrange a 'stash area' such that only the end Crown Board needs to be opened for that purpose - thus there's almost zero disturbance to the main hive.

    There appears to be no significant reduction in Queen pheromone when using a truncated partition (follower) board, as any increase in path length is essentially no different than that presented by a fully-drawn comb in the same position, and - unlike a brute-force metal-grid QX - there is free, unimpeded traffic flow around such a board.

    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  11. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Christopher Lake, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    That is an interesting hive little_john.

    As I get more comfortable with my Layers hive I hope to try a few modified hive ideas that have been posted on Beesource. There is a wealth of information here that new beekeepers can access. Thanks to all of the more experienced for sharing expertise that would be otherwise hard to access.
    Last edited by ursa_minor; 06-15-2020 at 06:40 AM. Reason: edited for punctuation

  12. #71
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,301

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Ok - thanks for that clarification.

    Speaking from my own experience, I have no concerns whatsoever regarding the use of truncated 'follower' boards to clear combs, and have been using this method for several years now without a single instance of queen cell development or split broodnests.

    Indeed, for me Long Hives have two major advantages (apart from lifting issues) over vertical hives. One is the ability to easily adjust the effective size of the box by the simple moving a of board. The second is an ability to place combs on the 'wrong' side of the board, either for clearance (in the case of partially-filled combs of honey, pollen or brood), or for 'bed & breakfasting' for a few days combs of open brood which have been used to pull nurse bees up through a queen excluder (say) when using a Cloake Board. A very useful facility when queen-rearing.

    Here's a top shot of my favourite 'stash' hive:



    It's very versatile: will take any depth of frame, and - thanks to the two different sizes of partial Crown Board shown at the left - by positioning the truncated partition board appropriately, it's then easy to arrange a 'stash area' such that only the end Crown Board needs to be opened for that purpose - thus there's almost zero disturbance to the main hive.

    There appears to be no significant reduction in Queen pheromone when using a truncated partition (follower) board, as any increase in path length is essentially no different than that presented by a fully-drawn comb in the same position, and - unlike a brute-force metal-grid QX - there is free, unimpeded traffic flow around such a board.

    LJ
    Neat hive, I have wondered if one could put a "NUC size split in each end and let them build until 1 full hive. Leave honey filled frames in the center to discourage the queen from crossing, or if she would smell the other queen and go on a search.

    GG

  13. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    othello wa 99344
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    i think it is a great looking hive ! can you update us on how it has worked for you?

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