Newby with Horizontal Hive Build - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,189

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Agree 100% - the 1.5" space beneath a follower/partition board is only recommended for a single queen colony, a) when you want to reduce the size of an occupied area within a large hive, or b) when it's being used as a means of preventing a queen from accessing and laying in honey combs.

    It would never keep two queens from meeting-up and fighting - for that you need guaranteed bee-tight partition boards.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Lilburn, GA, USA
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Hi, Doc,

    super nice hive build btw.

    I installed two nucs into a similar situation, but I can see that I will run into some of the issues mentioned by other posts on this thread.

    I apologize everyone for not being quite ready for prime time, meaning I have no pics to post right now, but I will try to remedy that later today.

    I built two boxes which were 19.5" by 19.5" by 22". On April 27th, in each box I placed frames from a langstroth nuc, with custom made double-deep "top-bar" style frames filling out the rest of the hive. The custom frames have a top-bar of 19.5 inches, and with a frame of roughly 17" by 17" glued to it. Those posters with experience will realize that this is not as simple as it sounds and requires some modifications, which for me included adding "lips" to the top of the box that were flush with the "top-bar" frames, but this meant the langstroth frames were "gapped" and the top bars were not. My work around for the gaps was extremely messy so I'm not even going to bother to mention it.

    My double-deep frames are foundation-less. I was very pleased yesterday to see that at least one of the hives the ladies are very enthusiastically building comb on the double-deep frame.

    Hope to have some pictures to share soon.

    -Thomas


    Quote Originally Posted by Docsmaple View Post
    First time posting and after I started reading, thought maybe I should start beekeeping with the Langstroth hives then work into the Horizontal Hives. However, living in NE Minnesota where the we have had low temps > -30 without wind chill and talking to local beekeepers about poor overwintering rates (around 40%), I wanted to build an insulated hive based on a cross of the langstroth and Lazutin style hive except with insulation. The walls are made out of two 1/2" plywood sandwiching 2" of EPS insulation. The roof is covered by a sheet of FRP panel. I Built custom double deep frames langstroth width and depth to avoid the brood having to cross any potential barriers between stacked vertical frames in the winter. Also, I built the cover deep enough to accommodate 3 medium supers over top of the double deep brood frames in the event I want to run two colonies out of one hive. Additionally, I can use the space in the lid for moisture absorption and blankets/insulation in the winter. The hive holds 36 double deep frames equivalent to 72 langstroth deeps. I think extraction from a double deep frame will be difficult to impossible from those frames. Anyway, here are a few photos of the hive and a few questions I'm looking for answers for. Constructive criticism and advise are welcomed openly.

    1) How do I transfer a nuc colony into the new hive? Do I just shake the bees into the new hive and lay the nuc box near the opening?

    2) How do I get a nuc colony to build on the double deep frames and then remove the original single deeps from the purchased nuc eventually?

    3) Is there any way to extract honey from the double deep frames without ruining the comb?

    4) What pitfalls do you see in the design of the hive?

    Thanks for the input.

    Chad

    Attachment 46303Attachment 46313Attachment 46315Attachment 46317
    My grandfather and great-uncle kept bees and my fiancée's grandfather, too. I want to pass this tradition along.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Esko, MN
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Thanks for the information Greg adn LJ. Much appreciated!
    Chad

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,189

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Agree 100% - the 1.5" space beneath a follower/partition board is only recommended for a single queen colony, a) when you want to reduce the size of an occupied area within a large hive, or b) when it's being used as a means of preventing a queen from accessing and laying in honey combs.

    It would never keep two queens from meeting-up and fighting - for that you need guaranteed bee-tight partition boards.
    LJ
    Just to expand on this a little - for the benefit of anyone who's unsure about how solid-board Queen Excluders work ...

    The normal job of a Queen is to lay eggs - and so she spends her time wandering around the combs looking for fresh places to lay. If on her travels she should come across an area of solid wood, at first she may see this as some kind of token barrier and begin to cross it, but if after an inch or so she hasn't found a fresh area of wax comb in which to lay, then she'll retreat back onto existing combs and continue her search for empty cells there. That's how the solid-board Queen Excluders are thought to work.

    But - if she should detect the presence of a rival queen, then the 'red mist' descends, all thoughts of egg-laying are completely forgotten, and the only thing on her mind then is to seek out that rival queen and kill her. Under such circumstances, nothing short of a complete and effective physical barrier will prevent the queens from meeting-up and attacking each other.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,162

    Default Re: Newby with Horizontal Hive Build

    Let me expand on this a bit too.

    IF the hive body is really big AND the nuc units are set at the opposing ends of the body AND there is enough space between the two - no mandatory need for the tight fitting boards.
    The "enough space" is probably at least a foot or better to effectively create clear open space between the colonies.
    Queen is not likely then to run across this open space into a remote hive so to break into it.
    Just need to establish that clear and physical separation between the colonies.

    I see people doing these nucs in large Lazutin hives and don't sweat about it.
    They toss some burlap over the frames and call it done - no boards are used at all.
    Gotta have lots of space though.

    For most cases, have to have tight boards to separate still.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Ukrainian frame experimentation.

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