Vermont Bill Before Legislature
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Concord, VT,USA
    Posts
    142

    Default Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    There is a newly introduced bill in the Vermont legislature, https://legislature.vermont.gov/Docu...Introduced.pdf, that primarily affects those who need to use pesticides on their crops. Or so it would appear. But, it establishes rules for "new" beekeepers. In essence, it mandates a license program to keep bees. You must demonstrate competency to have a hive and must be "certified" by the state agency.

    § 3023a. CERTIFIED BEEKEEPER
    8 (a) The Secretary shall establish by procedure requirements for the training
    9 of a person to own bees, apiaries, colonies, or hives in the State. The
    10 requirements shall address the requirements for competent beekeeping,
    11 including:
    12 (1) bee health;
    13 (2) varroa mite identification and control;
    14 (3) identification of common diseases or pests;
    15 (4) proper maintenance of hives;
    16 (5) State laws regarding beekeeping and pesticide application; and
    17 (6) continued education requirements.
    18 (b) A person who completes the training required under subsection (a) shall
    19 be certified by the Secretary as a Vermont certified beekeeper.

    We also have to pay a fee for each apiary. Don't some states actually subsidize beekeepers? Does any other state require you to pass a test to be legally compliant in order to keep a colony?
    7 years; 3 colonies.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    8,108

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
    Or so it would appear. But, it establishes rules for "new" beekeepers. In essence, it mandates a license program to keep bees. You must demonstrate competency to have a hive and must be "certified" by the state agency.

    We also have to pay a fee for each apiary. Don't some states actually subsidize beekeepers? Does any other state require you to pass a test to be legally compliant in order to keep a colony?
    We'll see. This is just new apiary rules bill, stuck at the bottom of neonic regulation bill. I doubt all those names included are reading the neonic sections and not really the apiary part. No discussion yet. The certified beekeeper thing will never fly.

    As far as the apiary fee of $10. That goes to help inspection. Without it I'm not sure they would have replaced the retired inspector.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    We'll see. This is just new apiary rules bill, stuck at the bottom of neonic regulation bill. I doubt all those names included are reading the neonic sections and not really the apiary part. No discussion yet. The certified beekeeper thing will never fly.

    As far as the apiary fee of $10. That goes to help inspection. Without it I'm not sure they would have replaced the retired inspector.
    Our fees operate on a scale
    1- 5 Colonies $2.00
    6- 10 Colonies $5.00
    11- 40 Colonies $12.00
    41- 70 Colonies $20.00
    71- 100 Colonies $25.00
    101- 200 Colonies $40.00
    201- 300 Colonies $60.00
    and so on...

    I can tell you with 100% certainty that what I pay ($40.00) is well worth the cost just to have access to our State Apiarist. She is very knowledgeable and is a huge asset to the beekeeping community here in Maine as was her predecessor Tony Jadczak.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rensselaer County, NY, USA
    Posts
    5,534

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Poor, pathetic, NY is mired in a never-ending fight over whether beekeeper/apiary registration (currently "voluntary", and as far as I can tell you send the form in and nothing, ever, happens as a result) should be made mandatory, or not. From the absurd fuss over it, you'd think the state was asking for some major sacrifice. Even if we get registration passed, then we'll probably spend another decade, or two, fighting over whether to have some modest kind of fee, like ME has. Five bucks for 10 colonies, is hardly onerous.

    When I read about ME, or PA, or OH with their effective, long-standing, helpful and some would say, even cherished, bee inspector/registration systems, I am so envious. Not having a clue where all the bee yards are will come back to bite us, sooner, or later. All because of stupid, selfish, childish, "I don't want to, so you can't make me" arguments. Yes, there were problems in the past. That was then, this is now. Fix it and move on.

    The beekeeper who keeps their bees completely on their own land would need more than 8 thousand acres. I bet there isn't even one NY beekeeper that can claim that. So every single beekeeper in the state is using the commons for their bees to forage on. Which makes it imperative that we cooperate with the other users of this shared, public resource.

    I went to a public meeting with Ag & Markets on the proposed changes. Beekeepers sat there and whined that they "needed something" from the state before they would support the registration system and provide their addresses. Gimme, gimme, gimme ... when you are already making a crop on land that isn't yours, in a profoundly communal ecosystem, with animals that easily move themselves and their pests and diseases from yard to yard. What twaddle!

    Nancy
    Last edited by enjambres; 02-14-2019 at 12:24 AM.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Skaneateles, NY
    Posts
    939

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    Poor, pathetic, NY is mired in a never-ending fight over whether beekeeper/apiary registration (currently "voluntary", and as far as I can tell you send the form in and nothing, ever, happens as a result) should be made mandatory, or not. From the absurd fuss over it, you'd think the state was asking for some major sacrifice. Even if we get registration passed, then we'll probably spend another decade, or two, fighting over whether to have some modest kind of fee, like ME has. Five bucks for 10 colonies, is hardly onerous.

    When I read about ME, or PA, or OH with their effective, long-standing, helpful and some would say, even cherished, bee inspector/registration systems, I am so envious. Not having a clue where all the bee yards are will come back to bite us, sooner, or later. All because of stupid, selfish, childish, "I don't want to, so you can't make me" arguments. Yes, there were problems in the past. That was then, this is now. Fix it and move on.

    The beekeeper who keeps their bees completely on their own land would need more than 8 thousand acres. I bet there isn't even one NY beekeeper that can claim that. So every single beekeeper in the state is using the commons for their bees to forage on. Which makes it imperative that we cooperate with the other users of this shared, public resource.

    I went to a public meeting with Ag & Markets on the proposed changes. Beekeepers sat there and whined that they "needed something" from the state before they would support the registration system and provide their addresses. Gimme, gimme, gimme ... when you are already making a crop on land that isn't yours, in a profoundly communal ecosystem, with animals that easily move themselves and their pests and diseases from yard to yard. What twaddle!

    Nancy
    agreed! And excellent use of the word TWADDLE!

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    8,108

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    When I read about ME, or PA, or OH with their effective, long-standing, helpful and some would say, even cherished, bee inspector/registration systems, I am so envious. Not having a clue where all the bee yards are will come back to bite us, sooner, or later. All because of stupid, selfish, childish, "I don't want to, so you can't make me" arguments. Yes, there were problems in the past. That was then, this is now. Fix it and move on.
    Nancy
    Exactly Nancy...
    And now their moving in on me along the Canada border. Trailer loads with no consideration to who's there already. Guy says he didn't know...could have checked with the state. My apiaries have bee registered for 30+ years. He asked me...what are YOU doing in NY? What nerve.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    5,232

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Exactly Nancy...
    And now their moving in on me along the Canada border. Trailer loads with no consideration to who's there already. Guy says he didn't know...could have checked with the state. My apiaries have bee registered for 30+ years. He asked me...what are YOU doing in NY? What nerve.
    so have you heard what ESHPA has rewritten the laws for NY ag's and Markets to bee yet? no one outside of a select few have been privy to the going's on. The rewrite is solely to fund Cornell and will include a fee. Now Cornell does have a "Tech Team", but they will only help beeks that have $1000 in income, that leaves the majority of the back yard beekeepers with paying for services that they get no benefit from.

    a copy of one post from a FB discussion on this subject.

    Dan Winter This is a sore topic for me. I’ve worked 2000 hives or more for 25 years. I’m registered and have never paid a fee yet. If NY cannot get an accurate census of hives in NYS then our local university’s cannot apply for federal grant money allocated by the Obama administration. Therefor we can’t get good local research because without a census we cannot prove need. All of us ask ourselves what is killing our hives? We do as good of a job keeping them alive as we can but still almost 50 percent die each Winter. 20 years ago an 8 to 10 percent mortality was terrible. Just 20 years. If you think for a minute that paying a small fee ( if it comes to it ) won’t benefit you, you are very wrong. Before you criticize me for my opinion ask yourself why you aren’t in support of this. Is it because someone told you that you might have to pay 20 or 30 dollars a year. 29 other states have mandatory registration because the local university’s approached legislators so research funding could be available. Cornell has already approached NY Ag and Markets asking for this legislation. It was not beekeeper pushed at all. If anyone has related questions you can PM me. I am currently on the NYS Apiary industry Advisory committee and ESHPAs vice-president. As well as an American Beekeeping Federation board member.
    so the commercial beeks are writing the law, and I'm sure making sure that there interests are taken care of, because their business model of doing pollination contract results in generating 50% losses, to get Cornell to do research for them, paid for by the majority of the small beeks and Cornell dropped any bee related interest for the last 15 years, and only now that they see free money, they get that deer in the headlights look, and require that all small beeks must be registered.

    a couple of posts from bee-l from a thread you posted to, now Montana's laws would seem to help you and the small beekeeprs and the University of Montana has been able to keep their bee research funded just fine without registering the small beeks.

    Montana's long-standing Bee Act has 4 categories of beekeeper:

    Commercial, Landowner, Hobby, and Pollinator.
    Hobbyist are not required to register, can have up to 10 colonies per family, do not have to adhere to spacing regulations.
    At 11 Colonies the Apiary automatically comes under a Commercial classification and must meet the requirement of 3 miles from another commercial beekeepers apiary. MT in 2018 had nearly 6000 registered apiary locations which are located by GPS or to the nearest quarter section. The maps are public, online.
    If you want a model, this is a proven one.
    Montana is only one of a few states - numbers range from 3-4 - that has a registration law with established sites and 3 mile buffer zones.
    Whereas comments from NY and TX blame commercial beekeepers for objecting to registered sites, the Montana State Beekeeping Association is almost entirely made up of commercial beekeepers. They, as an association, work hard to provide adequate funding to cover the costs of a State Apiculturist, even going so far as helping adjust the fees to provide adequate resources to the state to cover inspection costs. Since hobbyists aren't required to register, the costs to commercial beekeepers are self-imposed.
    Gene is correct about the economics. The 3 mile buffer zones were originally set up to protect bee health. It adds value when a MT beekeeper decides to sell an operation with registered sites.
    After use of antibiotics became common, the health argument in MT weakened, until the problems of 2006-2010. During that period, very few of our beekeepers sustained any major collapsing problems. Those few that experienced it had major losses. But, in MT, we saw no evidence of transfer of whatever was going on, crossing over from neighboring commercial operations. We did a lot of sampling and analyses. Those few commercial beekeepers who had problems generally reported having seen problems in their neighboring commercial operations while in CA. At least one major Montana operation decided not to migrate, and they've been doing fine ever since. These days, I'm convinced that the spacing does protect bee health. It reduces transfer of contagious problems, including mites.

    From our bee training and flight to target trials, I have data that re-affirms spacing effects. Bees readily and quickly fly 1 mile. Any state considering a 1 mile buffer should just forget about it. To a bee, that's not a significant distance.

    In urban settings, numbers of bees from a source apiary, arriving at the target site two miles away, was still strong, but the bees were beginning to show a drop-off trend, with fewer of the marked bees arriving from the source apiary, and more interloper bees arriving from backyard beeyards, as well as a commercial beeyard about 1/2 mile from our registered, source apiary. This 1/2 mile spacing was lawful, because the source site was a landowner site. At 3 miles, zero or a few bees arrived from the source when nectar resources were abundant.
    Jo Traynor summarized older studies in one of his articles. I'd have to concur with the argument that at about 4-5 miles, bees probably use as much energy as they expend, can only go that far if that stop for snacks along the way. Records show marked bees as far as 8-13 miles. I assume that's either only when nectar and pollen resources are very scant or the bee got lost. When we flew bees from a boat in the Gulf off of the FL coast, most of the bees foraged on the land, but one landed on a boat a mile out to sea. If bees can be happy, that one was.
    Bottom line, very few states still have registered sites and spacing buffer zones. Those that still do have to work to maintain that system.

    In MT, the benefits are self-evident to the resident commercial beekeepers, so they as a group support the Bee Act and the Inspection service. Commercial beekeepers looking to establish in MT fall into two groups. Some, who turned out for hearings that last time the State law came up for discussion in the Legislature, tend to be young families looking to establish in a state where over-crowding with bees doesn't jeopardize honey crops and bee health. They consider the MT Act to be an economic and sustainability benefit. The long-term odds are better that they may have a business to turn over to their kids. The other group are a few commercial beekeepers who keep trying to wedge themselves into MT and really want the MT State Act to go away so they can bully their way into locations.
    note in Montana the commercial beeks pay the salary for the bee inspector, in NY the commercial beeks want free inspection.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
    Posts
    3,626

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    Poor, pathetic, NY is mired in a never-ending fight over whether beekeeper/apiary registration (currently "voluntary", and as far as I can tell you send the form in and nothing, ever, happens as a result) should be made mandatory, or not. From the absurd fuss over it, you'd think the state was asking for some major sacrifice. Even if we get registration passed, then we'll probably spend another decade, or two, fighting over whether to have some modest kind of fee, like ME has. Five bucks for 10 colonies, is hardly onerous.

    When I read about ME, or PA, or OH with their effective, long-standing, helpful and some would say, even cherished, bee inspector/registration systems, I am so envious. Not having a clue where all the bee yards are will come back to bite us, sooner, or later. All because of stupid, selfish, childish, "I don't want to, so you can't make me" arguments. Yes, there were problems in the past. That was then, this is now. Fix it and move on.

    The beekeeper who keeps their bees completely on their own land would need more than 8 thousand acres. I bet there isn't even one NY beekeeper that can claim that. So every single beekeeper in the state is using the commons for their bees to forage on. Which makes it imperative that we cooperate with the other users of this shared, public resource.

    I went to a public meeting with Ag & Markets on the proposed changes. Beekeepers sat there and whined that they "needed something" from the state before they would support the registration system and provide their addresses. Gimme, gimme, gimme ... when you are already making a crop on land that isn't yours, in a profoundly communal ecosystem, with animals that easily move themselves and their pests and diseases from yard to yard. What twaddle!

    Nancy
    Well said enj.
    The reasons given for not supporting NY registration are as myopic as I have seen on any bee issue in a long long time.
    It compares only to the decisions made some years ago by the state to decimate the inspection and inspector program.

    Good grief, given the drama concerning simple NY beekeeper and apairy registration, just imagine the conspiracy theories that would be created and quickly disseminated via web based platforms had some Bill similar to the Vt. Bill been introduced to our legislature?

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Derry, New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,295

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Having controls and oversight programs are not always a bad thing. I needed some medication for foulbrood this past year for one of my hives and because of the required vfd i could not get it. If i were in Massachusetts i could have called the inspector and gotten a vet to prescribe. In NH no state agency had a clue what i was talking about. Ended up finding some that fell off a truck but it was a pain to call 30 people and come up empty.
    Terrence

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Georgetown County, South Carolina
    Posts
    21

    Default

    In SC we have a state bee inspector but don’t pay any fees. Not sure why all the connection between fees and having a state bee inspector. How many people have actually ever had a state bee inspector come out to there apiary? I imagine most hobby bee keepers never do. If large scale operations want to pay for it then let them pay for it but I think it seems like a rediculius bill for the average small scale hobby beekeeper.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
    Posts
    3,626

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Exactly Nancy...
    And now their moving in on me along the Canada border. Trailer loads with no consideration to who's there already. Guy says he didn't know...could have checked with the state. My apiaries have bee registered for 30+ years. He asked me...what are YOU doing in NY? What nerve.
    This bee thing sure isn't getting any friggin easier. If it's not getting dumped on, it's loss of good forage, or land "development", or neglected and/or abandoned hives, pests and disease, or imported honey, it seems to go on and on.
    Sorry to hear of your troubles.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    In VA we have inspectors but no fees are required. Not trying to be controversial here, but not all state initiated actions yield the desired outcomes. I recall back to when I was just starting out beekeeping. I noticed small black beetles in my hives, so I called the state apiarist. He quickly dispatched an inspector to my yard and identified SHB. He immediately quarantined my apiary preventing any hive-related products in or out of my yard for 1 year. I was told that this action was part of the "SHB eradication program". I think we know how that turned out. Further, the state put Coumaphos into my colonies (while supers were present) in an effort to achieve eradication, again without my consent or when I was present! If this were to happen today, I'd be out of business!

    I'll leave it to the readers to draw their own conclusions.
    Last edited by AstroBee; 02-14-2019 at 12:40 PM. Reason: typo!!
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    4,015

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    I am glad I live in MO. We get to take the bad with the good without the gov deciding how we will handle issues for us. I am sure there are times when the issues are hard to fix here but also that more issues are not created for those who do not have those problems by having more hoops to jump through. I like living in a no registration state just like I like living in a county where I do not need a permit or inspections to build a lean too. You have to pick your poison cause it can go bad for somebody no matter what direction is taken.
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  15. #14

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    The three mile rule in Arkansas would be fine if they ever updated their list of apiaries. Guys have been dead 10 years are still holding locations that you cant get within three miles of. Now they are sending out letters for a response from the location holder to see if its okay for someone to come into their area. Realize one hive being registered by a new beekeeper holds that three miles. One agent for the whole state.
    It simply does not work.
    Louisiana has got it down. Two miles. There is plenty of groceries in two miles so it works. The beekeepers try to work together on this distance. If there is an issue the inspector will get involved. Registration is mandatory with a graduated fee that is fair. Inspectors are knowledgeable and hard working.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Idaho Falls, ID
    Posts
    684

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbillybees View Post
    The three mile rule in Arkansas would be fine if they ever updated their list of apiaries. Guys have been dead 10 years are still holding locations that you cant get within three miles of. Now they are sending out letters for a response from the location holder to see if its okay for someone to come into their area. Realize one hive being registered by a new beekeeper holds that three miles. One agent for the whole state.
    It simply does not work.
    Louisiana has got it down. Two miles. There is plenty of groceries in two miles so it works. The beekeepers try to work together on this distance. If there is an issue the inspector will get involved. Registration is mandatory with a graduated fee that is fair. Inspectors are knowledgeable and hard working.

    Does this include hobbyist beekeepers? I live in a community in the county, maybe 50 properties of 2 or so acres each. At least 10 of us have a few hives, and more have some of the commercial bees on pallets dropped off on their property when not on almonds or some other cash crop. No way a two or three mile distance could work here.

    Also, between 1 and 49 hives does not require registration in Idaho unless they are being moved out of state, so there would be no way to enforce or track such a law.
    -- Joe
    "Make your own decision and embrace the consequences." -- jwcarlson

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    470

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Tennessee - You are required to register your 'apiary', whether you have 1 hive or 1,000. No fees. Must update registration every 3 years even if there are no changes.

    Last month, a guy came and spoke at our bee club. He is a state inspector for the eastern part of the state. AFB was reported in an apiary. He was able to map all registered locations withing an 8 mile radius. Took several days, but he did locate the source of the AFB. Wouldn't have been able to do that without knowing where to look.
    Zone 7a - 1650ft

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    North Yarmouth Maine
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    I pay the $2 fee in Maine every year. Last spring our inspector came out and inspected all 4 of my hives and left me notes on each hive to boot! It is one of the rare times I've gotten any kind of satisfaction from state government. Maine is a tiny state compared to NY/PA of course. I'd expect any fee discussion in either state will become a political mash-up.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
    Posts
    1,446

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    In Arkansas, if you are the landowner you can have hives on your property without regard to what your neighbor has, same rule for your neighbor. If you register your apiary no one other than landowners can place hives within the three mile radius of yours without your written permission. It basically protects the locals from migratory operators.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland County, Vermont,USA
    Posts
    2,146

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by kaywould View Post
    In SC we have a state bee inspector but don’t pay any fees. Not sure why all the connection between fees and having a state bee inspector. How many people have actually ever had a state bee inspector come out to there apiary? I imagine most hobby bee keepers never do. If large scale operations want to pay for it then let them pay for it but I think it seems like a rediculius bill for the average small scale hobby beekeeper.
    I had a suspected EFB , NOT AFB problem as a first year beekeeper and the inspector promptly inspected my hives. My daughter started beekeeping last year and the inspector cold called her saying that she was in the area and would she like an inspection, which she heartily agreed to. Her inspector answered her questions and helped teach her what to look for. It was a positive experience. Vt is a small state and probably more manageable than other states, but our small fee funds the inspector/s and is well worth the money.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Pepperell, MA.
    Posts
    6,095

    Default Re: Vermont Bill Before Legislature

    Quote Originally Posted by enjambres View Post
    Poor, pathetic, NY is mired in a never-ending fight over whether beekeeper/apiary registration (currently "voluntary", and as far as I can tell you send the form in and nothing, ever, happens as a result) should be made mandatory, or not. From the absurd fuss over it, you'd think the state was asking for some major sacrifice. Even if we get registration passed, then we'll probably spend another decade, or two, fighting over whether to have some modest kind of fee, like ME has. Five bucks for 10 colonies, is hardly onerous.

    When I read about ME, or PA, or OH with their effective, long-standing, helpful and some would say, even cherished, bee inspector/registration systems, I am so envious. Not having a clue where all the bee yards are will come back to bite us, sooner, or later. All because of stupid, selfish, childish, "I don't want to, so you can't make me" arguments. Yes, there were problems in the past. That was then, this is now. Fix it and move on.

    The beekeeper who keeps their bees completely on their own land would need more than 8 thousand acres. I bet there isn't even one NY beekeeper that can claim that. So every single beekeeper in the state is using the commons for their bees to forage on. Which makes it imperative that we cooperate with the other users of this shared, public resource.

    I went to a public meeting with Ag & Markets on the proposed changes. Beekeepers sat there and whined that they "needed something" from the state before they would support the registration system and provide their addresses. Gimme, gimme, gimme ... when you are already making a crop on land that isn't yours, in a profoundly communal ecosystem, with animals that easily move themselves and their pests and diseases from yard to yard. What twaddle!

    Nancy
    Love this post.
    "My wife always wanted girls. Just not thousands and thousands of them......"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •