Horizontal Dadant
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  1. #1
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    Default Horizontal Dadant

    Anyway, the Dadants can be totally run horizontally.
    The horizontal Dadants are a staple in Ukraine/Russia.
    Many a homesteader swear by them.

    Hence the topic.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by bkcrrtnps View Post
    I run them a few different ways. I have some traditional Dadant size hives that hold 12 of them, I have double nucs that have 5 on a side with divider and then I have my horizontals that I built that I use dividers in. What more would you like to know? I’ll never go back to a langstroth style hive again!
    Very cool!
    Finally a real Dadant guy close to me that I can talk to.
    Drove through Iowa few times in the winter - whew! Black ice.

    What is your wintering methodology?
    How many frames do you send into the winter in a 12-framer? How do you insulate the top?

    How many frames in the horizontals?

    How do you super your 12-framers? What/when is your main flow?

    What is your approximate location in Iowa (just close enough to google at the climate, etc).

    How long have you been running the Dadant frame?
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    A very good Youtube channel for horizontal Dadants.
    This lady - all she does single-level horizontal Dadants, about 50 of them.
    No supers - no IFs or BUTs. Just a single frame size all across.
    Single level stationary horizontal Dadants.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYA...Uxc_YAq0dko5Rw
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  5. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bkcrrtnps View Post
    I run them a few different ways. I have some traditional Dadant size hives that hold 12 of them, I have double nucs that have 5 on a side with divider and then I have my horizontals that I built that I use dividers in. What more would you like to know? I’ll never go back to a langstroth style hive again!
    Very cool!
    Finally a real Dadant guy close to me that I can talk to.
    Drove through Iowa few times in the winter - whew! Black ice.

    What is your wintering methodology?
    How many frames do you send into the winter in a 12-framer? How do you insulate the top?

    How many frames in the horizontals?

    How do you super your 12-framers? What/when is your main flow?

    What is your approximate location in Iowa (just close enough to google at the climate, etc).

    How long have you been running the Dadant frame?
    In the 12 frame boxes I use just 11 and overwinter in a single box as true Dadants are 1 hive body. My 12 frame Dadant boxes have Dadant supers which hold 12 medium frames. I’m located by Sully, IA. This is my 3rd year with horizontals and the first year I was skeptical so I had 2 colonies in each one with 15 frames, well each colony only used 6 all winter. I decided to cut down to 12 last winter and same thing, they used 6-7 frames per colony. This year I’ve put 3 colonies in each horizontal with just 10 frames per colony. I’ve had Dadant hives for 4 years now and they overwinter better, build up faster and start packing in nectar sooner

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by bkcrrtnps View Post
    In the 12 frame boxes I use just 11 and overwinter in a single box as true Dadants are 1 hive body. My 12 frame Dadant boxes have Dadant supers which hold 12 medium frames. I’m located by Sully, IA. This is my 3rd year with horizontals and the first year I was skeptical so I had 2 colonies in each one with 15 frames, well each colony only used 6 all winter. I decided to cut down to 12 last winter and same thing, they used 6-7 frames per colony. This year I’ve put 3 colonies in each horizontal with just 10 frames per colony. I’ve had Dadant hives for 4 years now and they overwinter better, build up faster and start packing in nectar sooner
    Thanks for the details.

    Interesting but I see exactly the same thing - I winter mine typically on 5-7 large frames sandwiched between the follower boards.
    All it is to it.

    What is your frame spacing?
    My Dadant frames are with factory-built spacing at 1.5 inch (which I mean to shave down to 1.25 inch).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bkcrrtnps View Post
    In the 12 frame boxes I use just 11 and overwinter in a single box as true Dadants are 1 hive body. My 12 frame Dadant boxes have Dadant supers which hold 12 medium frames. I’m located by Sully, IA. This is my 3rd year with horizontals and the first year I was skeptical so I had 2 colonies in each one with 15 frames, well each colony only used 6 all winter. I decided to cut down to 12 last winter and same thing, they used 6-7 frames per colony. This year I’ve put 3 colonies in each horizontal with just 10 frames per colony. I’ve had Dadant hives for 4 years now and they overwinter better, build up faster and start packing in nectar sooner
    Thanks for the details.

    Interesting but I see exactly the same thing - I winter mine typically on 5-7 large frames sandwiched between the follower boards.
    All it is to it.

    What is your frame spacing?
    My Dadant frames are with factory-built spacing at 1.5 inch (which I mean to shave down to 1.25 inch).
    Where r u located? I’m going to build a couple more horizontals to overwinter nothing but 5 frame nucs in. Right now I have 6 dadant boxes with dividers I overwinter nucs in.....

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by bkcrrtnps View Post
    Where r u located? Iím going to build a couple more horizontals to overwinter nothing but 5 frame nucs in. Right now I have 6 dadant boxes with dividers I overwinter nucs in.....
    Dane County, WI.

    Yep; makes sense - horizontals to overwinter nothing but 5 frame nucs.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bkcrrtnps View Post
    Where r u located? I’m going to build a couple more horizontals to overwinter nothing but 5 frame nucs in. Right now I have 6 dadant boxes with dividers I overwinter nucs in.....
    Dane County, WI.

    Yep; makes sense - horizontals to overwinter nothing but 5 frame nucs.
    I wish I could convince more people how good jumbos are but they get indoctrinated through new classes that Langstroth is the end all be all......

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Hey, it's a bit scary living an alternative hivestyle! I am just starting with Dadants; mine fit in 2 medium boxes glued together, so there are 10 frames, and the side bar on the frame is 12.75 in.

    Weller Bee supply was willing to make the frames for me!!!! They ship stuff.... If you need special order frames...

    In fall, and now, the bees are on about 5 Dadant frames - so about half the box unused. I am concerned they won't have enough stores, since they have 2 Lang frames as of now - didn't get a chance to draw out the last 2 frames.

    I am pretty worried I set the bees up to starve - but I worried about that the first year with my horizontal top bar hives. They were fine then and are fine now with winter!

    So thanks for sharing your experiences, I feel better now. I sure hope they build up fast - I have big plans for my 3 Dadants!!!

    Can we change the "Top Bar and Horizontal Hive Form" to "Alternative Hive Forum"

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by trishbookworm View Post
    mine fit in 2 medium boxes glued together, so there are 10 frames, and the side bar on the frame is 12.75 in.
    That is one plan I could do IF I am to go with the Dadant-based mobile hives - two medium boxes should fit 10 Jumbo frames perfectly.
    1-2 honey supers on top.
    Not exactly a horizontal setup, but rather a hybrid setup for mobility in summer.

    A horizontal 16-20 frame Dadant-based resource hive is another idea. This would be a static hive; go-to for any resources as needed.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    I am busy doing my usual wintertime activity of contemplating some interesting games to play with my bees next summer. It is good therapy for recovering from hernia repair surgery! going to have to rethink the weight issues of moving around deeps.

    I am curious about what the main perceived advantages are of a long style hive for Dadant deep (or deeper) frames. I have one 10 frame 11 5/8" hive body and several sets of frames ready to populate in the spring but the long hive in either deep or dadant frames is catching my attention too.

    I am guessing the ease of construction and the flexibility of movable dividers and followers would be a plus. What is the most convenient length.

    I would like to have resource hives to combine in the spring; our spring is late and summer is short. By the time a double deep colony has its workforce numbers up, a good part of the flow is over. I do well overwintering stacked 5 frame deep nucs but they are a chore to insulate and wrap. A row of nucs separated by dividers in a long box is tempting!
    Frank

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    ....
    I am curious about what the main perceived advantages are of a long style hive for Dadant deep (or deeper) frames.
    General use resource hives.
    Not perceived - a factual advantage.
    Hands down.
    Took me 3 years to understand this simple fact - because no one rants about it (but should).

    Plus: excellent human and bee ergonomy; stupid simple accessibility - again - back to excellent resource hive (multi-nucs are a part of this).

    Not oriented for mobile keeping.
    Not oriented for high volume honey production (as practiced in US - based on mobility).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    It is good therapy for recovering from hernia repair surgery! going to have to rethink the weight issues of moving around deeps.
    Time to re-read the topics on horizontal/compact vertical hives.
    While have the time.

    Many ideas of ergonomic beekeeping have been re-hashed X-times.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    What is the most convenient length.
    I very much agree with what Greg has just said.

    With regard to length - this is very much a personal choice: I had one which was 48" long, housing 2 colonies, but eventually it was cut in half because of the difficulty in moving it into the workshop for maintenance. My own personal choice is around 32", as I can get my hands around that length of box and carry it comfortably short distances (when empty, of course).
    Such a length will house 21 frames at 35mm spacing, or 20 plus 3x partitions, which then allows a secondary use of housing four 5-frame nucs side-by-side over winter, with one entrance on each of the four sides. However, I'm sure others have different preferences ...
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    I very much agree with what Greg has just said.

    With regard to length - this is very much a personal choice: I had one which was 48" long, housing 2 colonies, but eventually it was cut in half because of the difficulty in moving it into the workshop for maintenance. My own personal choice is around 32", as I can get my hands around that length of box and carry it comfortably short distances (when empty, of course).
    Such a length will house 21 frames at 35mm spacing, or 20 plus 3x partitions, which then allows a secondary use of housing four 5-frame nucs side-by-side over winter, with one entrance on each of the four sides. However, I'm sure others have different preferences ...
    LJ

    I had to say this and missed (my apologies) - LJ has been a long-time advocate of the long hives on the BS.
    But again - who pays attention?

    The length:
    I have 24 inch (16 nominal frames) and 30 inch (20 nominal frames). Nominal frame - 1.5 inch.
    For a totally permanent place 30-36 inch is a good choice.
    For a semi-permanent place 20-24 inch is a good choice.
    Anything shorter - you loose the key advantages of a good resource hive. Then we are talking different hive profiles - mobile/hybrid/nucs.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    A very good Youtube channel for horizontal Dadants.
    This lady - all she does single-level horizontal Dadants, about 50 of them.
    No supers - no IFs or BUTs. Just a single frame size all across.
    Single level stationary horizontal Dadants.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYA...Uxc_YAq0dko5Rw
    I explain the context a bit more because I stated:
    Not oriented for high volume honey production (as practiced in US - based on mobility).
    This lady is, in fact, a honey producer on totally horizontal, single-level Dadant hives.
    This is possible because:
    * there are large sunflower fields nearby and so she is able to harvest large mono-crops off the sunflower directly from her single yard.
    * she is fully static - once the hive is set, it is hardly ever moved;
    * general size she runs - 20 Dadant frames (I think - easy to count the frames - I did not)
    * in spring she routinely creates dump-combined units for spring harvest of locust honey (just collects the frames piece-meal across the apiary into few empty hives - very strong, queen-less combines - let's them go at it )

    She does things in really simple ways and yet it works great.

    PS: there are a couple of double-body, vertical Dadants in one corner of her apiary (sort of swarm traps that get permanently occupied); she continuously complains how hard to work them
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Here is a very cool and authentic Dadant keeper.
    Watch what can be done with stationary horizontal hives.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlq3n2cJKBk

    To see his way to expand vertically up - he just piles the frames on upright and that is that - jump directly to 5:00.

    The guy is very successful and sells tons of honey, breeds his own Carni/Backfast lines and sells lots of bees too.
    But he is a funny dude fur sure.
    Old fashioned and ignores the modern conventions.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    To see his way to expand vertically up - he just piles the frames on upright and that is that ...
    I thought that part was great ...

    I really love the Russian's 'no unnecessary frills' approach to life - even re-using unwanted duvets and bed-quilts - not to mention his use of dried grass/hay for winter packing. Very inspirational
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Horizontal Dadant

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    I thought that part was great ...

    I really love the Russian's 'no unnecessary frills' approach to life - even re-using unwanted duvets and bed-quilts - not to mention his use of dried grass/hay for winter packing. Very inspirational
    LJ
    He took lots of grief from the the others for his peasant ways (winter packing was one of them).
    They were trying to teach him the "modern ways".

    Well, the dude does not shy away from giving them some grief right back.
    Not too polite either I should say.
    (In the comments and some follow-up vids too).
    Hahaha... Makes for a good show.

    He (and his many followers) just have have straight forward answers - bees like his ways and bees are doing great and procreate just fine for him - and so the "straw haters" should just go away and mind their own bees (if have any).
    He has many vids and I try to follow.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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