2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Mar 2012
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    Catskills, New York, USA
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    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    I believe Sam has hives/yards that are pretty well isolated, which supports “all beekeeping is local”and his management style. There is a somewhat local man that lives about an hour or less from me (Cooperstown area) a retired Dr. of hematology who has been beekeeping about 40 years and is an EAS Master Beekeeper. He tried treatment free for about 4 years and stopped, unfortunately it didnt work for him. I truly wish I could be. I saw Kim Flottum do a presentation (utube) on drones at the National Honey Show. He will use drone comb in hives in a cycle of every week or so adding a frame then removing when capped. He says by July or so his counts are low, like one mite. These are hives he doesn’t worry about passing on genetics. I have to watch again, he talks about it briefly at the end. Deb
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_rH9ZEh_-Q
    Proverbs 16:24

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  3. #22
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    Mar 2012
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    Catskills, New York, USA
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    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Proverbs 16:24

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    10,145

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcin View Post
    But it is possible to keep bees treatment free and not have them die. For me that entails splitting the hives, monitoring for mites ( and requeening colonies that have high counts ), integrating VSH genetics, using darker bees and being ok with smaller honey harvests.
    it would be great to hear more about your treatment free experience in northern illinois marcin. please consider hosting a thread here in the tf subforum if you are so inclined.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    I saw Kim Flottum do a presentation (utube) on drones at the National Honey Show. He will use drone comb in hives in a cycle of every week or so adding a frame then removing when capped. He says by July or so his counts are low, like one mite. These are hives he doesn’t worry about passing on genetics.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_rH9ZEh_-Q
    Deb:

    Just wanted to thank you for posting this video. Had the opportunity to watch and it was quite informative. I chuckled when Kim quipped that his wife reminds him every fall that he is a drone...

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Greensboro, North Carolina
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    3,406

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    In some locations.

    Try it where i am, won't work.

    How do i know this? i tried it and followed Dees teachings to the best of my abilities over a 2 year time frame. Ended up losing every single hive. At that time i was scoffed at by some in the treatment free camp, it was my fault, somehow, somewhere, i must have done something wrong, they said.
    Sadly, I fell into this category as well.

    I went treatment free from 2005 to 2011. Natural comb and utilized the techniques of most of the advocates of TF systems back then (Dee being one, although I never actually met her). I started out trying on a hand full of hives. Over the years my operation grew to 65 colonies. All from local stock that was kept treatment free for over a decade (my own stock from local swarms from 2005-2008 when I had high losses, then I bought 6 colonies from a guy 8 hours away that his health failed him and wasn't able to open his colonies for a decade and they survived despite not being treated).

    And then in 2011 my hives collapsed. First a few. Then robbing started. Then more. I went into summer with 65 colonies. I went into winter with 5 colonies. I came out of winter with 0 colonies.

    My natural comb didn't work. Rather than reverting from 5.4mm cells to 5.1mm or smaller, their cells ended up being 5.9mm (all on their own, I don't know why). Treatment free didn't work. Local, adapted, survivor stock didn't work. I asked members of the TF crowd why, and I got a resounding "I don't know" or instead, and probably worse, many blamed me for being a bad beekeeper, or telling me I did something wrong.

    Something happened, something didn't work for me when it did for others. No one could identify why (including myself). So I asked several prominent TF beekeepers how they would suggest I start over. I had an opportunity, a clean slate to draw on, so how should it be done? What bees should I get, what should I do differently. I asked 5 of the most known TF beekeepers at the time. 4 wouldn't give me an answer. 1 told me to find "treatment free stock." When I asked what stock he'd suggest, or if I could purchase one of his queens, I never got a response. So I moved on and abandoned natural comb, and abandoned TF. My bees are healthier now than they were before. And I have bees.

    None of this is an indication that TF will or won't work for someone else though, it's just my experience.

    The TF group has always had social issues. Those that claimed success, even though they didn't understand why, were given a bejeweled soapbox. Those that provided criticism or skepticism (some justified, but much of it provided harshly and not constructively) were often attacked. Those members of the TF group that weren't successful (myself and Oldtimer, for example) were ridiculed. The number of individuals starting beekeeping is getting smaller by the day (as seen by some of the recent bee supply shut downs). Beekeepers on average are an older crowd, which means their life expectancy isn't great. So the pool of available beekeepers is declining. Only a portion of those will be interested in TF. And if the TF crowd begins thinning the crowd by attacking their own members, the system isn't sustainable long term. So I can't say I'm surprised Dee's event got canceled. Its' still sad though.

    Everyone has something to teach us. You just have to be able to listen and not criticize. Some teach us what to do or how to act. Others teach us what not to do or how not to act. It's up to you to decide what message the person is trying to teach. Dee has a wealth of information and experience, and I may not agree with all of it, but it would be a shame if it all becomes lost.

  7. #26
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    May 2002
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    San Mateo, CA
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    6,770

    Default

    > The number of individuals starting beekeeping is getting smaller by the day

    I said that in post #2 of this thread but......the last two local bee meetings here were filled full with new wanna bee beginner beekeepers. Here the fad still has legs......and still super wealthy housewives getting chickens. I guess the agrarian fads last longer here in a totally non agrarian civilization. If the grocery store trucks stopped rolling for 2 days food rioting would break out. I think I am the only person in a neighborhood of 800 homes producing and selling food.....i.e. honey.
    All of my opinions and suggestions are based on my five decades of actual beekeeping,
    not so much on book learning, watching YouTube videos nor reading internet sites.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    2,859

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    > I guess the agrarian fads last longer here in a totally non agrarian civilization....
    Foodie Localism Loves Farming in Theory, But Not in Practice
    https://aeon.co/ideas/foodie-localis...ot-in-practice

    Food producing is too dirty and too bloody and too heartless for the most (that is IF they bother to even try it for real).
    Last edited by GregV; 03-15-2019 at 09:44 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Catskills, New York, USA
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    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    Deb:

    Just wanted to thank you for posting this video. Had the opportunity to watch and it was quite informative. I chuckled when Kim quipped that his wife reminds him every fall that he is a drone...
    Welcome.
    Proverbs 16:24

  10. #29
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    1,157

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkayme View Post
    Everyone has something to teach us. You just have to be able to listen and not criticize.
    SpecialK:

    Just wanted to comment that I really appreciated your post and you made a lot of salient points in my humble opinion. I self-identify as one of the 'younger' people getting into beekeeping who are naive enough to try treatment-free but old enough to recognize that I might fall flat on my face.

    I've gained a wealth of information and good, practical advice from beekeepers of all management persuasions so I agree that communicating with the intent of fostering learning and sharing of accumulated wisdom seems like a good approach in my book.

    That said, I really appreciate all the many people here on Beesource who have been very generous with their time and expertise and patient with novitiate beekeepers like me who are bound and determined to learn the lessons the hard way.

    Thank you again for your post. I for one appreciated your candor and tenor.

    Russ

  11. #30
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    Greensboro, North Carolina
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    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    Thank you again for your post. I for one appreciated your candor and tenor.
    I'm glad you got something out of it.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    556

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    statement of the day "His mistake was to assume that his methods would work anywhere." I even see big differences 25 miles between 2 Apairys with somewhat the same bees. I think some succeed or fail due to the DCA. Reading some old books that describe the virgin queen flying low and fast for 1 mile or more then popping up to "begin looking" for a DCA. So the drones most of us assume are from our own Apairy would only apply if Apairy vicinity mating occurs. they get her returning home. Some DCA 1 to 2 mile away is a big part of your success, or failure. if you can cover a 9 square mile 3x3 area with known Drones then you can control. other wise no so much. be on the edge of a Tupilio Swamp and start with swarms then you my be golden, leveraging from 20 years of bond in the wild. In a city where 200 packages are shipped in each year, How could you ever repeat that even if you had a good year. Carry on use what works for your local area.

    GG

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Buena Vista, Colorado
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    I have never met the Lusbys but I am familiar with them, their reputation, and their techniques. I just recently bought their book. I was hoping to go to the conference some day. Looks like that won't happen. I guess I'm a little disappointed that I missed that boat as I have had plenty of opportunity to do it.

    The thread mentions Dee needing help or someone taking over the whole operation. This peeks my interest. I've had plenty of experience working Africanized bees in Texas and Belize and working commercially in general. I just might be the right guy.

    Maybe one of you guys/gals out there who know Dee could introduce/connect me with her?

    Thanks,
    Paul

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,748

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    12th Annual Organic Beekeepers Mtg, Oracle AZ rescheduled for 3/27-3/29 2020.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  15. #34
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    Dec 2010
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    Buena Vista, Colorado
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    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    That works.

  16. #35
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    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
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    1,157

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Paul:

    If you haven't already, you can sign up for Dee's e-mail Yahoo group at: [email protected]

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,661

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Quote Originally Posted by pdarrah View Post
    I have never met the Lusbys but I am familiar with them, their reputation, and their techniques. I just recently bought their book. I was hoping to go to the conference some day. Looks like that won't happen. I guess I'm a little disappointed that I missed that boat as I have had plenty of opportunity to do it.

    The thread mentions Dee needing help or someone taking over the whole operation. This peeks my interest. I've had plenty of experience working Africanized bees in Texas and Belize and working commercially in general. I just might be the right guy.

    Maybe one of you guys/gals out there who know Dee could introduce/connect me with her?

    Thanks,
    Paul


    We'd love for you to bring Africanized bees to Colorado.
    --shinbone
    (1975-1980, and now since 2011; maintain about 10 hives; Zone 5b; 15" rain; 5500')

  18. #37
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    53,748

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    >We'd love for you to bring Africanized bees to Colorado.

    There are plenty of beekeepers in Denver getting bees from Texas. I think you're already getting them. Of course I don't recommend them...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  19. #38
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    Jul 2011
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    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
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    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    Respectfully, I've seen a few videos of the Lusby's apiary. Apply all the geographic spin and semantic obfuscation people want, no way do we need or want such uniformly aggressive bees in Colorado.

    JMHO




    .
    Last edited by shinbone; 04-16-2019 at 10:50 AM.
    --shinbone
    (1975-1980, and now since 2011; maintain about 10 hives; Zone 5b; 15" rain; 5500')

  20. #39
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    Sep 2016
    Location
    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    1,852

    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    We many not need or want them, but its silly to suggest they are not here, they come in as imports, but like all the SHB that comes in, they just don't last in our environment.

    As far as I know there has only been one case of them overwintering, and that was a few zones warmer then denver
    https://www.denverpost.com/2014/05/1...isade-orchard/

    all the more reason to focus on local stocks and get people off the package bee treadmill

  21. #40
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    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
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    Default Re: 2019 Lusby conference cancelled, no signups.

    It is my understanding that Africanized bees do not survive the winters in Colorado. So, I would suggest that no matter how many may be brought in, they die within the first winter, and thus we do not have an established, or even an over-wintered, population of these bees in Colorado.

    Regardless of how many are brought into the state, or how many may or may not survive our climate, I personally think it is irresponsible beekeeping to knowingly bring in such bees or to promote bringing in such bees. And it is even more irresponsible if it is done thinking Africanized bees are a magic bullet that will achieve the fantasy goal of treatment free bees. It’d be worse than bringing in nutria to control kudzu.

    To be clear, I am talking about a bee strain with genetics causing a higher than usual propensity to be very defensive as derived from hybridization with certain African strains. This as measured relative to the typical non-defensive nature of our standard bee strains such as Italian and Carniolan. Because mixing in African bee genes generally increases the chance of this overly defensive characteristic, the term "Africanized" is the popular nomenclature typical used to reference these bees.

    JHMO.





    .
    Last edited by shinbone; 04-16-2019 at 11:44 AM.
    --shinbone
    (1975-1980, and now since 2011; maintain about 10 hives; Zone 5b; 15" rain; 5500')

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