Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    I'll pop in here with my 2 cents worth regarding ethics...
    It seems to me that it would be somewhat unethical and if not that, at least unfriendly to place swarm traps anywhere near another beek's yards without asking. One may not realize that the yard owner has their own traps out for unfortunate swarms. Perhaps your traps are more enticing to a swarm and will land in yours. Without yours, they may have landed in the yard owners.
    Yes, I do realize that it's all a crap shoot. But in a world where more and more folks aren't getting along, it just seems we beeks should be partnering and working together more.
    30 hives and counting...
    Huntsville, AL: Alabama's best kept secret

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  3. #22
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    May 2011
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    There are no unspoken swarm trap ethics that I care to be aware of.
    My opinions are based on a decade of beekeeping, book learning and watching YouTube videos.

  4. #23
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    SaltyBee, I concur. We pay taxes to the center line of the road, the "right of way" is for the county /state to place a road for travel of cars etc. Climing up a tree on my fence line to place a trap is not something the right of way gives you. I see no reason why you would not ask the land owner if you can do the deed .

    Gray Goose

  5. #24

    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    I always have better luck attracting swarms in old equipment vs. hanging up traps. Plus, then you don't have to transfer them. Is this a local phenomenon?
    Beekeeping Instructor / Live Bee Removal / San Diego, Ca / 90 hives. Check out my new book: Queenspotting

  6. #25
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    May 2018
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    Lockhart, Texas
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    People are odd. Some guys are offended if you put a trap within a mile of their bee yard, even if you bee yard is 1/2 mile away. Land 'ownership' doesn't matter to them
    . Others don't care. One fellow I know wouldn't get the bees that moved into his neighbor's cat house for a year, I finally removed it. Another lady begged me to put a swarm trap by her house... neighbor's bee yard was 1/2 mile away, but I removed 6 colonies from her house that year! They kept coming, one after another after another.

  7. #26
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    Sep 2018
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Girl Next Door Honey View Post
    I always have better luck attracting swarms in old equipment vs. hanging up traps. Plus, then you don't have to transfer them. Is this a local phenomenon?
    I do not think it is a local Phenomenon. I trap with a Old single 10 frame deep or 2 -8 frame mediums. The older boxes heavily propolized seem to work the best. 1 Squirt of Swarm Commander on the inside of the lid. Bees prefer a place where they think other bees have lived, the smells are there, they seem to be scent/pheromone driven when looking for a new home. Even the Pheromone of queen-less can be attractive.
    Normally in the spring I have several Supers available and or dead outs. I put out as many as I have time for. As I start splits and need the supers I reel them back in. I am In Norther Michigan , by the 4th of July I generally go get the Traps back, to either use or store. Later than that tends to have bugs take them over. As well I want the first primary swarm from an over wintered queen/colony somewhere. After the 4th of july the swarms can be from some ones southern package they did not give enough room to. No Offence to Southern bees but I do believe in Locality and local stock.

    happy collecting

    GG

  8. #27
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    Sacramento County, CA
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    We began to experiment with swarm traps a while back. We began to catch 5-10 swarms per day and I began to feel guilty...real guilty.

    I posted about my feelings of guilt here at beesource. I received a number of different answers, but one beekeeper said something that freed me from the guilt I was feeling. He basically said this: Look, if you are catching massive numbers of swarms, then someone is not taking care of their honeybees. He mentioned that poor management of colonies can cause lots of swarming. He then said, look at it this way: if no one catches the swarms and places them in nice homes, then they are at the mercy of the elements, weather, and predators. He said since I am providing 5 star Hilton Hotels for these swarms, I should not feel any guilt at all.

    His words made a lot of sense to me and I have never felt guilt capturing swarms since reading his post.

    We caught all our swarms on our own property and personally, I would not feel comfortable placing swarm traps on private property without the property owner's permission.

    I have often entertained the idea of placing swarm traps on public property, but my biggest concern is getting sued by someone if I caught a swarm and then the swarm hurt someone.

    Hope this helps!

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    JMHO:

    Respect private property. Don’t harm the natural environment. Otherwise, trap away and obey lawful commands.
    --shinbone
    (1975-1980, and now since 2011; maintain about 10 hives; Zone 5b; 15" rain; 5500')

  10. #29
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    Sep 2018
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by soarwitheagles View Post
    We began to experiment with swarm traps a while back. We began to catch 5-10 swarms per day and I began to feel guilty...real guilty.

    I posted about my feelings of guilt here at beesource. I received a number of different answers, but one beekeeper said something that freed me from the guilt I was feeling. He basically said this: Look, if you are catching massive numbers of swarms, then someone is not taking care of their honeybees. He mentioned that poor management of colonies can cause lots of swarming. He then said, look at it this way: if no one catches the swarms and places them in nice homes, then they are at the mercy of the elements, weather, and predators. He said since I am providing 5 star Hilton Hotels for these swarms, I should not feel any guilt at all.

    His words made a lot of sense to me and I have never felt guilt capturing swarms since reading his post.

    We caught all our swarms on our own property and personally, I would not feel comfortable placing swarm traps on private property without the property owner's permission.

    I have often entertained the idea of placing swarm traps on public property, but my biggest concern is getting sued by someone if I caught a swarm and then the swarm hurt someone.

    Hope this helps!
    soarwitheagles
    So what techniques are you using to get 5 -10 swarms a day? I would be good with 5 a week. How many of what kind of trap?
    trap setups? etc. Be nice to catch a few to replace losses.

    GG

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    soarwitheagles
    So what techniques are you using to get 5 -10 swarms a day? I would be good with 5 a week. How many of what kind of trap?
    trap setups? etc. Be nice to catch a few to replace losses.

    GG
    Hi Gray Goose~

    Nice screen name!

    I am a total newbie compared to most people here, so please take what I share with a grain of salt...

    Also, a number of people say I am putting in WAY TOO MUCH lure. And most of those people combined have a few centuries more experience than I.

    So, with that being said, here is what we do:

    1. We pray, asking for a miraculous catch [Luke 5, John 21]
    2. We use old 10 frame or 8 frame deep boxes [we read in numerous places that the size of the trap is very important].
    3. We install 4 frames of super old comb [no honey, no pollen, so that equates to no robber bees, but, rather, only scout bees].
    4. We drill a 1.5 inch hole in the front center of the box and staple 1/2 inch hardware on the inside of the hole [this prevents birds, mice, etc. from entering the box].
    5. We install a 2x4x18 inch plank with a 1 inch hole on the back side of the box so we can hang the trap easily from 10 inch nails hammered into trees.
    6. We apply 4 types of bait/lure in every trap: Swarm Commander, Lemon grass oil, Bait lure and a weird wax bait, these last two items we purchase from Ebay.
    7. We spray a couple of sprays in the hole, one spray to the top of the inside lid, then some bait/lure on a cotton ball that is inserted inside a plastic bag and pinned to the back side of the inside of the trap. Keep the bag open slightly.
    8. We hang the traps from Eucalyptus trees, approximately 6-8 feet off the ground [I used to hang them 10-16 feet high, but after experiencing several near falls, we relocated all traps so we can service them while standing on the ground.
    9. We do our very best to collect the captured swarms at night and within a 24-48 hour period. Last year, we left several swarms in traps for over two weeks and most had filled the traps with massive amounts of wild comb, honey, pollen and eggs/larvae. This made them quite messy, quite heavy, and much more time consuming to transfer them into boxes. Some swarms even left the trap after a couple of weeks.
    10. This year, we committed to immediately treat every swarm with ProVap OA during the transfer process, when there is no brood.

    I will do my best to post some pics...

    Hope this helps!

    Soar

    Ok, here's some pics....

    2.jpg6.14.17.jpg2017-5.jpgRedwood tree swarm 2017.jpg

  12. #31
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    And here's a pic of the result of leaving a swarm too long in the trap!

    Beautiful, but messy to clean up!

    Oh, by the way....

    During the peak of the swarm season, we often would see, hear, or catch 10 swarms per day here. Not sure why. We decided to rename the ranch to "Swarm Ally."

    We would place 5 or more swarm traps out at midnight with fresh lure, and every trap had a swarm before noon the next day.

    Our problem for the last two years is we did not have enough boxes to place the swarms in. This year, we are finally ready! We have over 100 new boxes built, painted and ready to go. This week we are finishing up the lids and the bottom boards. Also, this week, we placed nearly 10 swarm traps up in trees. Scouts did not touch any trap until two days ago. Today, two traps were being hammered. Now, our goal is to hang 30 traps each day during the peak of the swarm season. We hope to assemble and complete 200 more boxes very soon. Gotta be ready!

    Left bees in trap too long.jpg5.jpgPainting 03.2019 b.jpgNew Boxes 2019.jpg
    Last edited by soarwitheagles; 03-22-2019 at 12:32 AM.

  13. #32
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    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    soarwitheagles
    So what techniques are you using to get 5 -10 swarms a day? ............
    GG
    Last year I commented on this, GG.

    I still think SWE has struck a good location nearby of a almond bee thieves' storage of their stolen hives.
    Why?
    Because
    1) allegedly there are no official and large bee AND (at the same time) neglected yards nearby to release SO MANY swarms so quickly
    2) bees do not migrated like wild gees an mass - cross-continent AND all along the same well defined routes (realistically, these bees are all coming from a nearby source or sources)
    3) bees allegedly are of all imaginable varieties (again, a yard of stolen cross-national bee boxes will give you that)

    Well, it is logical to assume there is a large, unofficial (hidden, in fact) bee dump nearby where people are not able to do much work (like swarm prevention and maintenance).
    Imagine large stacks on single bee boxes hidden in some warehouse or behind a tall fence.
    No one hardly does anything there during the daytime - because the bees are stolen - they are need not to be known about.

    What do the bees do when left in single too long? Well, they swarm.

    FYI, this is all in South Cal.
    I don't think you gonna get much useful advice outside of what you already know about swarm trapping.
    SWE does no magic - the location IS the magic.

    Yes - many things sound crazy (until they become common knowledge).
    Last edited by GregV; 03-22-2019 at 08:19 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Ukrainian frame experimentation.

  14. #33
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    Sep 2018
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Thanks for the tips. Swarm alley is correct. Great you can get so many swarms. the homes in that area must be loaded with swarms trying to get into cavities. here in Northern Mich I do good to get 3 or 4 on 10 Traps for the month. Thanks for the reply I'll look at the lures on Ebay. I also use a single 10 frame deep, I am transitioning to mediums so I have some around and they are fairly well propolized.

    GG

  15. #34
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Last year I commented on this, GG.

    I still think SWE has struck a good location nearby of a almond bee thieves' storage of their stolen hives.
    Why?
    Because
    1) allegedly there are no official and large bee AND (at the same time) neglected yards nearby to release SO MANY swarms so quickly
    2) bees do not migrated like wild gees an mass - cross-continent AND all along the same well defined routes (realistically, these bees are all coming from a nearby source or sources)
    3) bees allegedly are of all imaginable varieties (again, a yard of stolen cross-national bee boxes will give you that)

    Well, it is logical to assume there is a large, unofficial (hidden, in fact) bee dump nearby where people are not able to do much work (like swarm prevention and maintenance).
    Imagine large stacks on single bee boxes hidden in some warehouse or behind a tall fence.
    No one hardly does anything there during the daytime - because the bees are stolen - they are need not to be known about.

    What do the bees do when left in single too long? Well, they swarm.

    FYI, this is all in South Cal.
    I don't think you gonna get much useful advice outside of what you already know about swarm trapping.
    SWE does no magic - the location IS the magic.

    Yes - many things sound crazy (until they become common knowledge).
    Mr. Greg,

    I still feel your statements have a strong element of conspiracy theory!

    Let's not forget the other factors that I did not mention:

    1. The government also runs a small area 51 a couple of hundred yards from our property.
    2. On the other side of the street, we often see green little men that appear to have antennas instead of ears on their head and they live in weird looking igloos.
    3. There is a chemical company just down the street experimenting with new chemicals and one day we actually saw a 27 ft. long queen bee flying over their R & D building. If I am not mistaken, this large queen bee was actually smiling at us as it flew by and I think it was because there were no varroa mites on it!
    4. When we eat honey from the the swarm hives, we noticed our skinning beginning to turn a bright green and I think I even noticed weird antenna like things beginning to grow from where I ears were.

    Whatever you do, DON'T tell anyone, we do not wanna attract undo attention just in case the colonies were stolen from a different planet!

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    I dunno, sounds plausible. Getting back to the ethical side of things, I think it is unethical for someone to park so many unmanaged hives near Soar's swarm traps. Just look at all the extra work they are causing him!
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    I dunno, sounds plausible. Getting back to the ethical side of things, I think it is unethical for someone to park so many unmanaged hives near Soar's swarm traps. Just look at all the extra work they are causing him!
    Heck, I wanna know of such park of stolen bees.
    I'd be trapping like crazy myself.
    But no luck.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Ukrainian frame experimentation.

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by soarwitheagles View Post
    Mr. Greg,.... !
    Look, did I blame you for something?

    Keep doing what you have been doing.
    I'd be trapping like crazy too - no questions asked.
    Unsure why get irritated.
    Take it as a joke, it is fine.

    But I don't know any other good explanation.
    I do not imagine every house in the area has bees to swarm - now THIS is not possible.
    What is for sure - they do steal almond bees in California.
    Stolen bees must be parked somewhere before they are re-sold. Now that is simple enough idea.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Ukrainian frame experimentation.

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Soar,

    I would be happy to lighten your burden and bring about 30 traps out there to save you some of that work!

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Look, did I blame you for something?

    Keep doing what you have been doing.
    I'd be trapping like crazy too - no questions asked.
    Unsure why get irritated.
    Take it as a joke, it is fine.

    But I don't know any other good explanation.
    I do not imagine every house in the area has bees to swarm - now THIS is not possible.
    What is for sure - they do steal almond bees in California.
    Stolen bees must be parked somewhere before they are re-sold. Now that is simple enough idea.
    Greg,

    No you did not blame me for anything, even though I am sure there could be lots to blame in my life.

    Just thought I would have some fun with you and hopefully get a few constipated beekeepers to laugh and loosen up a little. Prune juice is no longer easily available due to it being aliens staple diet.

    Also, it is a proven fact that beekeepers are one of the main members of society that help with constipation [suppositories are often coated with wax].

    Cheers!

    Constipation 3.JPG

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Swarm traps and unspoken code of ethics

    Charlie, you REALLY want to beat Ollie again, don't you? But, setting boxes near a known swarm factory is like shooting fish in a bucket, not very sporting.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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