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Shook Swarm

3K views 25 replies 14 participants last post by  123989 
#1 ·
I am going to make a shook swarm for a friend in the spring and was wondering how many medium frames you would shake to ensure a stable colony. Thanks!
 
#3 ·
It all depends on how nice you want to be to your friend. A nuc box with about 4 frames of bees shaken in with honey stores on one empty comb on another the rest can be foundation plus the queen. if you really want to be nice give him all the capped brood they'll have a full size hive in no time and you may have many queen cells to make many more hives.
 
#4 ·
I told my friend I could give him a nuc, but he was interested in a package. Since I don’t have any packages, I was thinking I could shake bees into his equipment as if I was shaking them into a package and then put the queen into his equipment. The original colony would be left to raise their own queen. He doesn’t have any drawn comb, so I wanted to make sure I give him enough bees to start drawing comb and care for the new brood. The original colony will be left to make their own queen.
 
#6 ·
I am in complete agreement with Steve in PA. This makes zero sense. He wants a package, tell him to purchase a queen and you give him four frames of bees shook off of brood comb. Done. Best option based on what you have said so far, is for you to split out your queen and several frames of brood and make a nuc. Or is your friend trying to be cheap and get a nuc, less the comb, for the price of a package?
 
#7 ·
If your friends curiosity is "how do bees establish a colony in a new cavity" he won't want to start with a nuc since the establish part is mostly done. He may not even want the stores or the drawn comb and might be a top bar candidate. If what he wants is "get bees" then the comments above are spot on. Sometimes the reason for the trip is the journey, not the destination.
Bill
 
#8 ·
Saw an interesting film in from Germany from back in the 1990's of a commercial beekeeper. Her shook swarms were weighed. She brought out a funnel, package box and a scale...zero'd out funnel and scale and shook bees until she had 2 1/2 lbs per shook swarm. it was enlightening and I will be attempting to duplicate it this spring/summer.
I should note, she smoked the brood chamber to chase them up thru the excluder and took them from the supers so there were no drones and no queen obviously.
 
#14 ·
It’s interesting how everything on this forum devolves into the treatment free vs treatment beekeeping argument. My question has nothing to do with varroa mites. My friend lost all his bees and equipment to a bear a few years ago and wants to get back into it. Since he just bought all new equipment he’s trying to save some money. He also runs deeps and I run mediums. While I agree that nucs are better. I don’t mind getting to keep the brood and drawn comb. Since I see no difference with the method than a package install except being shipped across the country, I’ll do it and let you know how it goes.
 
#15 ·
No offense intended. At post # 3 there is not much background to judge your posting style.
Wanting a package over a nuc, in the absence of other background, screams "rooky". Glad that is false.

Really not much devolvement involved.

The answer to your original question of "how big" is really when in the season will you shake. Early takes more. As you are looking at a new queen I'm guessing mid to late spring season. MD people take it from there.
 
#17 ·
Did I miss a post? Where was TF v. T discussed on this thread? And I don't recall seeing varroa mentioned at all. I think we are all discussing the merits of a nuc over a package and how many medium frames one would need to provide for the shook swarm to have a good chance in Maryland. For that the consensus seems to be four.
 
#19 ·
4 med frames of bees seems light to me. If it was my friend I would consider almost doubling that when you consider how much work ahead for them. Going to be a while before there will be any new bees hatching out in his hive. If they don't have enough bees they won't be efficient at building a new colony and will struggle along.
 
#20 ·
If you use Medium frames and he uses Deeps... That seems ideal for sending him a nuc with mismatched equipment. Put the medium frames into the deep box, they build a bit of comb on the bottom till he gets started and then rotate those frames out of the broodnest and then give them back to you and you cut the excess drawn off the bottom.

Nuc beats 'package' any day in my book.
 
#22 ·
The brood break with a shook queen is pretty short, a package not much longer.
A foundationless frame in the nuc will give a solid idea of how a hive builds up if that is the main goal. Still neat to see festooning bees and new comb.
Most importantly, the head start of the nuc, is an advantage in short seasons.

In this case, the very generous gift was of a proven overwintered queen. Nuc me, nuc me, nuc me.
 
#23 ·
IMHO I agree with the package, not the NUC. It’s a good idea to start off with fresh new comb. My personal experiences with NUCS has taught me to keep a sustainable apiary with the exception of a few queens from reputable beekeepers for added genetics. I am in no way implying that the donor is a bad beekeeper. I’m sure most of us started with packages and were successful. Deb
 
#25 ·
Im not sure if you are referring to me in your comment, what I stated “starting with a package and fresh new comb” meant that the package of bees would draw out fresh new comb on the “new” frames of foundation. And I don’t see where there is confusion between a package and a nucleus colony in this thread. Please enlighten me.
 
#26 ·
I wasn't trying to be super critical or anything like that, I am just saying he said he wanted a shook swarm....ie...package and people started telling him he needs a nuc. I agree a nuc would give him a headstart and is the route I would go, however that is not what he wants. Shoot, I have 4 nucs on order now and I am planning on setting out 10 swarm traps to catch swarms, which I consider a natural package LOL.
 
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