FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot
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  1. #1
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    Default FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot

    This happened years ago. The fondant is rubber. I cannot explain why this occurred. I determined that before I had the thermometer too close to the bottom and the vessel registered hotter than it really was...

    cut to the chase, has this happened to anyone?

    Can I start another batch and added these to a hot solution melt these and bring to a higher temperature and start over?

    any ideas

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot

    Just make simple sugar bricks. 2 cups water and ten pound bag of sugar. Stir until all sugar is damp and pack into molds. I use dixie brand paper soup bowls. I have seen people make a feeder rim a couple inches deep and put 1/2" hardware cloth in to let the sugar dry on so it can be set on top of a hive. Add any vinegar or other angel farts recommended by the trendy people and you are good to go. I know it is too simple to earn much street cred. No collapsing gooey mess to lament about either.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    Just make simple sugar bricks. 2 cups water and ten pound bag of sugar. Stir until all sugar is damp and pack into molds. I use dixie brand paper soup bowls. I have seen people make a feeder rim a couple inches deep and put 1/2" hardware cloth in to let the sugar dry on so it can be set on top of a hive. Add any vinegar or other angel farts recommended by the trendy people and you are good to go. I know it is too simple to earn much street cred. No collapsing gooey mess to lament about either.
    I make an invert sugar that is easier for the bees to digest. I have made this food for them for 5 years.....Miraculously this morning the discs had setup overnight-no idea why it took over 12 hours to do this. I make a fortified food for them instead of just plain carbohydrates.... FWIW, here is part of an article I wrote for the recipe I have honed and use. Thanks for the responses:

    Fondant

    A fortified fondant is insurance for winter stores. Remember, Bees donít freeze to death, they starve to death. Place a disc above the cluster and watch it disappear. Fondant discs can be added anytime from December to March and donít impede the hiveís ventilation.

    Recipe:
    10 pounds of sugar
    2cups (1-btl) of white corn syrup (no vanilla added, good luck finding this with no vanilla)
    3 cups cups of water
    10mls (2-teaspoons) Apple Cider Vinegar
    Ĺ cup Ultra Bee Supplement
    10mls HBH
    10Ē paper plates
    electrical hand mixer, thermometer,

    Combine water, corn syrup, vinegar in a pot and gradually bring to a boil. Turn down the heat and gradually add the sugar, stir until dissolved. Heat the mixture on MED HIGH until the temperature rises to 242 degrees F on a candy thermometer. Be sure to keep the thermometer an inch or two from the bottom of vessel for an accurate temperature reading which is critical. You want to avoid scorching this solution, so donít rush it the first time.

    The mixture clears around 220 degrees and just begins to boil around 230 degrees.

    Allow the temperature to reach 242 degrees slowly, the temperature will accelerate as it nears 242. Turn off heat.

    Let the syrup cool to about 220F~ 15 mins. I use an electric hand mixer to beat air into the mix until you see it begin to turn opaque. This solution of sugar is dangerously HOT.

    Add the HBH and Ultra-bee at this time and mix/fold until uniform.

    Pour into 10Ē paper plates. Let cool completely then add to your hive. You may have to add a 1Ē shim to accommodate the discs.

    This recipe is roughly the same as Dr. Clarence Collisonís slide I saw during his lecture here in 2016. Dr. Jake Evans described the importance of nutrition in the beeís diet in another lecture I attended recently. The addition of Ultra-Bee or an equivalent supplement is important for b-vitamins and minerals the bees need for healthy nutrition. Adding the Ultra-Bee or equivalent into a rapidly cooling hot sugar solution at 220 degrees is safe because the proteins, minerals and the b-vitamins are not heat labile at this temperature.

    IMG_6197.JPG

  5. #4
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    Default Re: FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot

    Excuse me, I didn't know you were an expert selling something. I was just trying to offer a simple workable solution. Don't forget the eye of newt and toe of frog.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot

    Thats funny...i have since made a half dozen or more batches of fondant and got one more late setting batch. I think the most 3 most important things to remember is a curately reaching a target temperature with proper placement of the thermometer in the vessel and equally important , in my experince, is whipping enough air into the mixture starting around 220 degrees until you can see bubbles everywhere, using a hand electric mixer of course. The fondant sets up straight away... thanks for helping before... btw, the late setting batches , even if they were like nearly cured epoxy, would eventually setup....i had to just keep everything off it, keep it level and have patience, .....�
    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    Excuse me, I didn't know you were an expert selling something. I was just trying to offer a simple workable solution. Don't forget the eye of newt and toe of frog.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot

    I am with Vance on this one. That is an awful lot of work to go through to make sugar for your bees. I use 2.5 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar (or water) per pound of sugar. Mix it up by hand, press it down in the pan. less than 5 minutes of work to make 10 pounds of sugar blocks. Let it air dry over night and the bees eat it up. If I needed it really fast, 1 hour in the dehydrator will harden them up. No scorching, no boiling, no thermometers, no big mess to clean up. Rinse out the pan with water and you are done. I have heard all kinds of arguments that inverted sugar is better but never have seen any proof. Bees will live just fine with plain old sugar.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot

    Quote Originally Posted by dudelt View Post
    I am with Vance on this one. That is an awful lot of work to go through to make sugar for your bees. I use 2.5 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar (or water) per pound of sugar. Mix it up by hand, press it down in the pan. less than 5 minutes of work to make 10 pounds of sugar blocks. Let it air dry over night and the bees eat it up. If I needed it really fast, 1 hour in the dehydrator will harden them up. No scorching, no boiling, no thermometers, no big mess to clean up. Rinse out the pan with water and you are done. I have heard all kinds of arguments that inverted sugar is better but never have seen any proof. Bees will live just fine with plain old sugar.
    Thats fine, nothing wrong with quick and easy. Sucrose is perfectly fine to feed your bees. It takes me an hour to make a batch and i am happy to do it. I have it down to a science and there is no mess or my wife would flip. What works in my apiary may not necessarily be a good fit in yours. I prepare a food product that is fortified with b vitamins, minerals and proteins...as well as being easier to digest in the bee gut. Mar 13 will make five years I have kept bees and have yet to lose a hive over winter. The food is just a part of my winter strategy that begins in early fall with mite control. Thanks for your responses.....

  9. #8
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    Default Re: FONDANT Failure: Can I reboot

    Quote Originally Posted by vdotmatrix View Post
    The fondant is rubber. I cannot explain why this occurred. [...]
    Can I start another batch and added these to a hot solution melt these and bring to a higher temperature and start over?
    Yes. The only time NOT to re-cycle fondant is if it starts to turn an amber colour - which means you've 'burnt' it. (HMF)

    "I have it down to a science ..." With respect, you clearly haven't. I agree with the others, KISS works fine. Adding a small amount of honey (when cooled) makes fondant more attractive, but it isn't essential.


    dudelt: "I have heard all kinds of arguments that inverted sugar is better but never have seen any proof."

    Fully inverted would be worthwhile, but partially inverted will make next to no difference - as there's only a small percentage involved. So not really worth the effort. Probably makes the beekeeper feel better.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  10. #9
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    Default

    i have made fondant for years and i figured out what happened. To each his own. thanks for your responses. (Unsubscribing from this thread)
    Last edited by vdotmatrix; 03-11-2019 at 06:55 AM.

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