Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

5 frame deep Nuc to Warré the easy? way

Tags
nuc warre
12K views 38 replies 5 participants last post by  viesest 
#1 ·
Getting a 5-frame nuc this spring to use in a Warre hive. Idea is to do a transfer down into the Warre, rather than cutting the combs. So I am building a transfer box, with the plan of removing the transfer box as quickly as possible, maybe by mid summer and harvesting the honey.

Question is: I was thinking of just building a wooden transfer box to hold the EZ-Nuc container. So it would be exactly the right size to fit the nuc. When I get the nuc, I will put it in this box then put it on top of the Warré. Then I could cut out the bottom of the Nuc with a razor, so that the nuc would open exactly into the Warre. Thats it. Other than having plywood coverings on the open parts of the top warré box.

The idea is to minimize any disturbance to the bees. The nuc frames would not be removed, they would just be able to build down into the Warré.
 
#2 ·
I don't know what sort of wooden-ware you have access to - but I found the easiest method of transferring bees from standard frames onto Warre Top Bars (or frames) was to tie-wrap the Warre Top Bar underneath a plain Top Bar dimensioned to fit a standard box, then chequer-board (IOIOIO etc) those bars between the regular frames until drawn-out and occupied, then progressively move the unwanted frames to the outside of the array to clear them of brood, before finally xfering the Warre combs across to their intended home. If what's left of the standard box is then placed near the Warre hive entrance, the remaining bees will join their sisters in due course.

I've found out the hard way that getting bees to move up or down into another box only works as and when (and if) the bees themselves want to do this.
LJ
 
#4 · (Edited)
Getting a 5-frame nuc this spring to use in a Warre hive. Idea is to do a transfer down into the Warre, rather than cutting the combs. So I am building a transfer box, with the plan of removing the transfer box as quickly as possible, maybe by mid summer and harvesting the honey.

Question is: I was thinking of just building a wooden transfer box to hold the EZ-Nuc container. So it would be exactly the right size to fit the nuc. When I get the nuc, I will put it in this box then put it on top of the Warré. Then I could cut out the bottom of the Nuc with a razor, so that the nuc would open exactly into the Warre. Thats it. Other than having plywood coverings on the open parts of the top warré box.

The idea is to minimize any disturbance to the bees. The nuc frames would not be removed, they would just be able to build down into the Warré.
I assume the transfer of 5-frame deep Lang nuc into some Warre format where the 9 1/8 inch tall Lang frame will fit inside.
This is really a trivial transfer.

I would not even bother with building anything custom.
I would not bother with cutting combs either.
No need to hope bees will somehow move the way you want them either (no guaranty of that).

You got your Warre boxes - use them as-is immediately and in place.
Maybe need to double-stuck the boxes to accommodate Lang frames (as they are long - about 18 inch long).

Method one - best to have a helper, but not necessary.
Produces a long-term setup at once since you attach proper top bars and remove original Lang frame ears.

1)prep appropriate top bars before-hand;
pre-drill holes;
set in screws;
if don't have already - get large garden loppers (those that cut through 1-2 inch branch easily)

2)mod nuc frames one-by-one and transfer them like so:
turn the frame 90 degrees;
using the garden loppers, carefully bite off the protruding ear (the one looking up); this will not shake any bees off - best to have the helper at this stage (but I have done without)
screw in the prepared top bar (use a proper driver - goes without saying);
drop the converted frame into your Warre box;
done;
next....

You will have something like this (this is a deep Lang frame repurposed for swarm trap usage; I have several hex vertical traps similar to Warre's in format; using Lang frames in them):
Bee Honeybee Insect Beehive Soil


Method two - no need to have a helper.
Produces fine short-term setup (or a long-term setup IF you are not a perfectionista).
Stupidly easy.
Everything needed is in this short, under 5 min video.
It is non-English, but just watch; it is all laid out in front of you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48GrA6vk6tk&t=7s
 
#5 ·
I assume the transfer of 5-frame deep Lang nuc into some Warre format where the 9 1/8 inch tall Lang frame will fit inside.
This is really a trivial transfer.

I would not even bother with building anything custom.
I would not bother with cutting combs either.
No need to hope bees will somehow move the way you want them either (no guaranty of that).

You got your Warre boxes - use them as-is immediately and in place.
Maybe need to double-stuck the boxes to accommodate Lang frames (as they are long - about 18 inch long).

Method one - best to have a helper, but not necessary.
Produces a long-term setup at once since you attach proper top bars and remove original Lang frame ears.

1)prep appropriate top bars before-hand;
pre-drill holes;
set in screws;
if don't have already - get large garden loppers (those that cut through 1-2 inch branch easily)

2)mod nuc frames one-by-one and transfer them like so:
turn the frame 90 degrees;
using the garden loppers, carefully bite off the protruding ear (the one looking up); this will not shake any bees off - best to have the helper at this stage (but I have done without)
screw in the prepared top bar (use a proper driver - goes without saying);
drop the converted frame into your Warre box;
done;
next....

You will have something like this (this is a deep Lang frame repurposed for swarm trap usage):
View attachment 45417

Method two - no need to have a helper.
Produces fine short-term setup (or a long-term setup IF you are not a perfectionista).
Stupidly easy.
Everything needed is in this short, under 5 min video.
It is non-English, but just watch; it is all laid out in front of you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48GrA6vk6tk&t=7s
I don't mean to be dense, but I don't understand.

My Warré bars are 11 ½ in (12 ½ with rebate) where the ones from the nuc will be 19 ½. So there is a 7 inch difference some of which will be filled with comb. Are you saying to lop off each nuc bar so it will fit and cut and toss the comb that is lost?
 
#10 ·
As a 49 year Langstroth framed hive user and a 10 year Warre user my sage advice is.....throw away the Warre hive and use that nuc in a Langstroth hive. Warres are even harder to manage than a topbar hive. Are you using a horse and buggy for transportation? are you using Western Union for telegraph communication? No and no. You are probably using a late model car or truck and a computer and smartphone. So why are you using thousands of year old beehive technology? Warres are something promoted by inexperienced beekeepers who started since the recent beekeeping fad started in 2006 who have no framed hive experience. Don't get sucked in.
 
#11 ·
..throw away the Warre hive and use that nuc in a Langstroth hive.....
Disagree.
It is just one needs to ditch the established ideas of what Warre is.
Forget the conventional Warre - it is not set in stone (unless you are a principled purist).
Modern "Warre" is just a vertical, ergonomic, small-format hive that can serve both a hobbyist and a commercial guy well.
That what it is.
 
#24 ·
There is another factor which is very curious in the saga of the Warre Beehive. In the 12th Edition of his book 'Beekeeping for All', Emile Warre describes how he undertook a large-scale field-comparison of numerous other beehive types before deciding upon those features which were desirable within his own 'revolutionary' beehive design.

At first sight this looks to be a most impressive piece of work, the outcome of which produced an expandable vertical hive-type, which was in marked contrast to the large capacity fixed-volume hive designs which had been field-tested - that is - until one considers which hive-types were NOT included, of which there were two.
The first was the British National (an expandable vertical beehive design (essentially a Langstroth variant) from just across the water from Warre's apiaries in Northern France) - but to be fair, it WAS a fairly 'new kid on the block'. But not so the American Root-Langstroth design which, even in Warre's day had already achieved a largely pre-eminent status amongst beehive designs world-wide.

So why didn't Warre include the very popular Root-Langstroth design amongst his Voirnots, Dadant-Blatts, Layens and similar chest-hive designs for comparison ?

What - and risk losing his USP (Unique Selling Point) by doing so ...

Warre may have been a priest, but he was also a salesman.
LJ
 
#37 ·
Hard to call those "Warre type". Wire frame, plastic foundation. Only the box size might get credit.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Well, as I already proposed, the classic "Warre" (as well as the classic design) should be just forgotten altogether.
Beeks should just move on on this one.
Maybe Warre should be just called dead.

Modern implementations are a plenty and they work better.
For sure, you can move them around by design (my requirement).
Who cares how they are called - what is important - they imitate a tree hollow by the box configuration, they are vertical, ergonomic, and have lots of flexibility.
Maybe they should be just called "tree hollow box" hives - generic and pretty accurate in the idea.

Here is another cool one.
Jump to 3:25 and watch a cool way to get rid of the bees from that mini-honey super.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdT5XkNVEZ0
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top