SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments - Page 2
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 74
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Spent some time this weekend converting my KTBH's into Layens-ish beehives.
    Going with dimensions similar to what Matt on Youtube and GregV use (19 inches deep), so I'll be able to throw deep conversion frames and side-by-side Mediums into them.

    So far, I took the two scrap wood top bar hives, cut them down into usable lumber, and started screwing them back together.
    IMG_20190323_151651.jpg
    Before

    IMG_20190324_154035.jpg
    after dismantling them and cutting some of the pieces down to size

    and the boxes as they sit so far
    IMG_20190324_184446.jpg
    still need to make lids, insulate, repaint, etc. but it's a start!
    for these I'm going to do the long slot-type entrance that Fedor Lazutin used on his deep hives.


    I also disassembled the KTBH nucleus/swarm trap boxes, I'm going to use the wood from them to build more Layens(ish) nuc boxes/swarm traps.
    I recently got permission from a few different folks to put up swarm boxes on their property, and I'll be getting those primed and set out soon.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Boaz, KY, USA
    Posts
    1,251

    Default

    Good update, Nick. Swarm season will arrive before you know it- best of luck to you with your trapping efforts.

    Russ
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,117

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by nickhefferan View Post
    .......
    for these I'm going to do the long slot-type entrance that Fedor Lazutin used on his deep hives.....
    Thanks for sharing.

    Entrances:
    I now am convinced both upper and lower entrances are of value;
    notice how this time of the year (cold spring in the Upper Mid) they really like the upper entrance and ignore the bottom;
    the upper hole is just warmer - less energy spent
    20190323_134712.jpg
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Entrances:
    I now am convinced both upper and lower entrances are of value;
    notice how this time of the year (cold spring in the Upper Mid) they really like the upper entrance and ignore the bottom;
    the upper hole is just warmer - less energy spent
    I may have to experiment with that should be simple enough to drill a hole and put a disc on it.
    I have a couple 10-frame lang boxes that I'm considering retrofitting for Layens as well (I think I ought to be able to fit frames warm-way in two deep boxes...)

    Going to assemble a ton of frames soon and get some traps hung up within the next couple weeks.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    442

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by nickhefferan View Post

    As of right now, I have no bees. I don't plan on buying bees to get them.
    I know some of the orchards near me will bring in commercial hives for pollination. I know these bees will swarm.
    I also live very close to state forest land. I hope there are bees living in those trees that will swarm.
    So, hopefully I'll have things to update this thread with. I'll post when things happen.

    -Nick
    You'll do best during blueberry pollination. There'll be some during the cherries and apples but generally not as many. I'd put traps starting around Cranes and move west to lake. Don't expect much east in the woods towards the river. I use to run mating yards within there on purpose to avoid non target drones

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBlackBirds View Post
    You'll do best during blueberry pollination. There'll be some during the cherries and apples but generally not as many. I'd put traps starting around Cranes and move west to lake. Don't expect much east in the woods towards the river. I use to run mating yards within there on purpose to avoid non target drones
    Thanks for the first-hand advice B3, I really appreciate it!

    I do have permission to place a few traps at a couple of properties west of Hutchins, so I'm going to take advantage of that for sure.
    These will probably be some sort of Italian/commerical bee, but they'll still be bees.

    I still want to put a few traps out around that forest just in case, I keep thinking if there is anywhere not as impacted by migratory pollination it would be there.
    Not expecting much if anything from that, but I figure I have to try. One of the pillars for treatment-free is to try to use locally-grown survivor/feral stock, right?

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    442

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by nickhefferan View Post
    Thanks for the first-hand advice B3, I really appreciate it!

    I do have permission to place a few traps at a couple of properties west of Hutchins, so I'm going to take advantage of that for sure.
    These will probably be some sort of Italian/commerical bee, but they'll still be bees.

    I still want to put a few traps out around that forest just in case, I keep thinking if there is anywhere not as impacted by migratory pollination it would be there.
    Not expecting much if anything from that, but I figure I have to try. One of the pillars for treatment-free is to try to use locally-grown survivor/feral stock, right?
    Use to have a significant yard on the south side of Hutchins but that was a decade ago and not 100% sure if the guys we gave it to still use it or not. There is a big commercial yard just west of the lake off 62nd. If you go north and cross 89, there are two other big commercial yards between there and the river also. Plus there's another one directly across the river.

    i did have a number of yards up against the state land to the east of you. out around the gun club and then south down to 118th. those were mainly setup for staging to pollination. you'll find some commercial yards scattered in there now though but more so over around the Todd farm.

    if you follow the state ground south towards pullman/bloomingdale, etc you'll just run into more commercial yards. and there are commercial yards on the east side of the forest along the m40 corridor into Holland. personally i'd concentrate on putting camoflagued traps inside the forest along the river bottom. that will give you the most buffering for a potential feral colony that is more than an escapee from a commercial colony

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,117

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by nickhefferan View Post
    ...
    I have a couple 10-frame lang boxes that I'm considering retrofitting for Layens as well (I think I ought to be able to fit frames warm-way in two deep boxes...).
    This is exactly how I use 10-fram Lang boxes - dropping Layens style frames in - the "short-way" (warm-way you called it).
    Near perfect fit.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    610

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by nickhefferan View Post
    Here's what I'll be working with for the upcoming season:
    Attachment 45171
    3 4-foot long Top Bar Hives

    Attachment 45173
    Attachment 45175
    Two Layens Hives (making them look pretty)

    Attachment 45177
    Attachment 45179
    and my swarm boxes.
    going to paint them more muted colors so they aren't as loudly on display.

    Nice Picks Nick. where is SW Mi are you? the holes in the TB bait boxes looks kind or small. Do you have enough old wax and propolis to warm and smear inside?
    Let us know how it goes.
    GG

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Nice Picks Nick. where is SW Mi are you? the holes in the TB bait boxes looks kind or small. Do you have enough old wax and propolis to warm and smear inside?
    Let us know how it goes.
    GG
    Down in Fennville: Southwest of Grand Rapids, South of Holland, Northwest of Kalamazoo.

    This past weekend I tore apart the Top Bar nucs (all of my top bar equipment in general) to make more that are Layens dimensions, but I had been planning on enlarging the entrances before putting them out

    I have old brood comb from a few dead outs that I've had, and I've got plans to do a bit of "painting" with some of the less intact bits.
    thanks GG!

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    610

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by nickhefferan View Post
    Down in Fennville: Southwest of Grand Rapids, South of Holland, Northwest of Kalamazoo.

    This past weekend I tore apart the Top Bar nucs (all of my top bar equipment in general) to make more that are Layens dimensions, but I had been planning on enlarging the entrances before putting them out

    I have old brood comb from a few dead outs that I've had, and I've got plans to do a bit of "painting" with some of the less intact bits.
    thanks GG!
    I am just north of Grand Rapids, so we are almost neighbors. good luck trapping. I have some scout bees flying around a trap already , so get them out soon. If you get too many swarms let me know I can hive a few
    GG

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,117

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by nickhefferan View Post
    .........I've got plans to do a bit of "painting" with some of the less intact bits.
    thanks GG!
    Hey, a heat gun works great for wax/propolise/slum gum "painting".
    The idea I got from odfrank's writings and tested last summer.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,117

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    .. I have some scout bees flying around a trap already..
    GG
    Gee, you guys really do have it mild down in MI; must be the lake effect.
    The same latitude as me - but we have it pretty harsh/continental on this side of the pond.
    Too early to talk of any scouting/trapping as of yet.
    I just saw first incoming pollen/propolise. Nothing significant. Freezing nights.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Picked up 78 used Medium Langstroth frames to use in my hives this weekend.
    frames.jpg
    Good craigslist find from a somewhat local beekeeper.

    And I added collars to the swarm traps so that they all can work with 19" frames if needed
    swarm trap.jpg
    Nice side effect of the collars is now the traps have handles
    I also drilled entrance holes so that I can use disc entrances I just got, going to screen the entrance slots I had originally made.
    (stapled a nail across the back of the entrance so other critters cant get in)

    I need to paint the camouflage patterns on the traps, rig up some frames, bait them, and set them out.
    Hopefully I can do that within the week.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quick update:
    Nucleus/swarm boxes are just about ready for paint now.
    I made telescoping lids for each, and covered those with coroplast/corex/corrugated plastic/political signs for extra weatherproofing.

    Six of them so far.


    here's a shot of the corrugated plastic covers on the smaller boxes.


    Five of the swarm boxes I will paint with a camouflage pattern and place in different forested spots out of sight, but easy for me to monitor.
    The last (and largest) one will be placed at an orchard, not really out of sight.
    Each will get a disc entrance so I can seal 'em up nice and easy to transport.


    I have four larger permanent hives in various states of in-progress (14 to 20 frame capacity), as well as the two Langstroth hives that I'm going to modify (slightly) to run the deeper Layens frames in.
    Going to run similar frames to the ones GregV uses, 14ish inches across, and 19ish inches deep. I have a bunch of conversion bars made up so I can use Medium or Deep Langstroth frames turned vertically.


    and I think I'm going to do some retrofitting to the last Horizontal Top Bar hive as well, so I'll eventually have 7 larger-volume hives to use.

    It's getting real! The weather keeps getting a little warmer each day, looking forward to the season, hope I can get bees into a few of the hives!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    - Nick - SW Michigan, Zone 6b (Lake Effect, ya know?). Extra Deep Horizontal Hives.

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    610

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Looks good Nick, Let us know when you catch the first swarm. I'm a bit north of you so I should start seeing swarms just after you do.
    Were you going to make your own frames for the 14x19 inch or do you have a wooden ware source? I would be interested in a frame making weekend this next winter, if you make your own. I have been experimenting with the deep long hive , from plans, in the Keeping bees with a Smile book.
    GG

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    ...
    Were you going to make your own frames for the 14x19 inch or do you have a wooden ware source? I would be interested in a frame making weekend this next winter, if you make your own.
    ...
    GG
    Been building my own, so a frame-making weekend sometime sounds like a good idea to me!

    So far, my father-in-law and I have been ripping scrap lumber for frames and also for making conversion bars so I can reuse existing Langstroth frames.

    this is partway through the build of some conversion bars (the notches needed to be deepened), but we basically used the plans at www.horizontalhive.com
    I have some ideas for the Deep frame conversions, to maximize usable area, since I don't intend these to just be transfer frames.
    Thinking of half-frame additions so the bees can fill out the space instead of having a dummy board blocking 1/3 of the frame.

    we also ripped down a bunch of lumber to 3/4 to 1 inch widths so I can assemble a bunch of frames specifically for these hives

    based mostly on the easy-to-build lazutin frame plans from horizontalhive.com again, but with the layens top bar dimensions.
    I currently have materials for 30 of these frames prepared, and have enough ripped lumber to make a few dozen more.
    need to cut some rabbets for the top bars, but other than that they're ready to assemble.
    ... the more I type this out the more I realize how much work I still have to do.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    - Nick - SW Michigan, Zone 6b (Lake Effect, ya know?). Extra Deep Horizontal Hives.

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,117

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Looking great, Nick.
    I am envious!

    I have a couple of comments..

    * If I only had time, I would build the original frames from scratch so to maximize the comb surface areas (tied together Lang mediums do waist some area, use-able otherwise);
    so that is to be recognized;
    the main benefit of tying the Lang frames together is the time/work/material saving at the loss of some space usage efficiency (still they work just fine);

    * when trying to match the "layens top bar dimensions" (1.5" width to be sure) be aware that bees will try to double-comb on you if running them foundation-less;
    if/when I get around to do my next batch of the frames, I will build them with
    a)pass-through top bars at 1 inch wide and will be using a cover cloth from burlap and/or plastic
    b)will make them to self-space to 1.25" by default (they always go a tad wider due to propolis build-up/wax build-up anyway; yes, yes, one should scrape the frame sides and blah, blah... - well, practically speaking that does not get done often enough)
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA, USA
    Posts
    325

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    * when trying to match the "layens top bar dimensions" (1.5" width to be sure) be aware that bees will try to double-comb on you if running them foundation-less;
    if/when I get around to do my next batch of the frames, I will build them with
    a)pass-through top bars at 1 inch wide and will be using a cover cloth from burlap and/or plastic
    b)will make them to self-space to 1.25" by default (they always go a tad wider due to propolis build-up/wax build-up anyway; yes, yes, one should scrape the frame sides and blah, blah... - well, practically speaking that does not get done often enough)
    Gregv,

    Help! I am going to help a man go to foundationless Layens hive. (He has very little time to manage bees) Do I cut the topbar-ish part to 1.25" to 1.375"? I think these bars are 1.635" Why does he make them so wide?

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,117

    Default Re: SW Michigan Horizontal Hives - Sans Treatments

    Quote Originally Posted by clong View Post
    Gregv,

    Help! I am going to help a man go to foundationless Layens hive. (He has very little time to manage bees) Do I cut the topbar-ish part to 1.25" to 1.375"? I think these bars are 1.635" Why does he make them so wide?
    I think he (Dr. Sharashkin?) makes the top bars so wide because he follows the Layens specs to the letter.
    Why? I don't know. Have to start somewhere, I guess.
    Also, Sharaskin still uses foundation, at least some (I don't care what he say about foundation-less - he himself sells Large Cell 5.4mm foundation "Made in Spain"; why is that? that runs counter to all the "natural" talks).
    Once you start running foundation, you don't have double-combing issues as much.

    Well, the original Layens's specs are for Southern France/Spain - very, very mild climate.
    Meanwhile, Sharashkin himself is in Southern Missouri - also very mild (i don't care of few snowy/cold days down there - it is mild, short winter, and end of story; I lived there long enough).

    Now, if you are up where I am at and you go foundation-less - you will face few issues specific to my case.

    a) Much harsher/longer winter AND a need to be able to use emergency dry sugar - need to have pass-thru bars - I don't care what Sharashkin says - my dry sugar saved me few bees (and I killed few bees not putting up dry sugar in time). So the interlocking top-bars keep giving me some head-aches on this issue - I end up spreading frames to let the bees up - not intended by this design.

    b) If you want to run nucs (Sharashkin never spoke of splits/nucs as if unnatural - until lately - now that he himself sells nucs) - you want to be able to setup your nest to be favorable to a small cluster - this means narrow frames and 1.25" will do it better.

    And so, I would cut 1.25" and call it a day (IF touching top bars).
    IF pass-through top bars - cut them as a typical Lang - ~1 inch or even narrower.
    This is my direction now.

    Keep in mind - 1.25" are very easy to space a tad wider (they will just be wider over time, anyway, due to build-up).
    But - 1.5" can never go more narrow, no matter how hard you try. And so you are stuck.
    Last edited by GregV; 04-12-2019 at 11:08 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •